OSX and apps: installation order at DVinfo.net

Michiel van der Zeeuw · February 4th, 2005, 03:38 AM

Hello

Finally made the plunge, next week I will be moving from my beloved G4 Powerbook to a 2Ghz DP G5 (3GB RAM). On the Powerbook I am running 10.3.6, the G5 comes with 10.3.5 installed. I want to install the following apps on the G5:
- FCP 4.5
- AE 6.5
- Adobe CS

What is the correct order for installing & updating these apps and the OS? Update OSX first (should I?) or should I first install the apps and then get the available updates for both the OS and the apps? (and in which order?)

Many thx in advance

Michiel

Rhett Allen · February 4th, 2005, 01:43 PM

If you are starting from scratch with a new computer I would take the extra time to do a low level format of the hard drive first. To do this:

1. Boot from the OSX CD (a copy of Disk Utility is on it) or from your Powerbook with the G5 in target disk mode. For target disk mode turn off G5, connect Firewire from Powerbook "while it's running" to G5, hold down the "T" key while starting up the G5 until the screen just shows a big firewire symbol.
2. Launch Disk Utility on Powerbook.
3. The G5's hard drive shows up as a Firewire drive so select it and go to the erase tab.
4. Select Mac OS Extended (NOT Journaled)
5. Click on "options" at the bottom and select, "low level format"

When it is finished (may take a while), quit "DU" and eject the Firewire drive (your G5 in this case), then restart the G5 and pop in the install CD for OSX.

This usually gives you a much cleaner and stable system to start with.

Install OSX (the one that shipped with your machine). Do a full install including the BSD sub-sysytem. Go through the motions of setting everything up (user account, internet etc.)
1. Fire-up Classic (it's in the preference panes). Ok, you can shut it (Classic) down now.
2. Now install QuickTime Pro (the serial number is on your FCP CD).
3. Install FCP and then all it's goodies.
4. Launch FCP and set it up.
5. Install Photoshop CS first and launch it. (now you can install other CS stuff if you have it, Illustrator etc.)
6. Install After Effects.

NOW go update all your apps. I haven't had any problems with FCPHD on 10.3.7 on my G4 Powerbook but I don't have a G5... yet.

The only really key thing to remember is to launch your new apps at least once before continuing on and Photoshop should be the first Adobe product installed. I can't remember exactly why but it has something to do with color settings. I always run a low level format on new drives and it seems to make a big difference in the long run.

Michiel van der Zeeuw · February 8th, 2005, 05:22 AM

Thanks Rhett, sounds like the way to go. Appr how long will a low level format take on a 160 Gig HD?
Thx
Michiel

Mark Sloan · February 8th, 2005, 09:26 AM

Is there a particular reason you suggested turning Journaling off Rhett? Especially on the boot drive? The performance hit is less than 5% in tests I have seen and it can save users from a lot of problems...

Rhett Allen · February 8th, 2005, 03:33 PM

A low level format on a 160G drive might take a couple of hours (maybe). Basically it writes a series of zeros across the entire surface of the drive. It might not take that long, it's been a while since I did it to a drive that big.

The reason I disable Journaling is because it "could" cause problems. I don't know specifically what the performance hit is (I know it's not huge) but I have seen it do strange things on heavily used editing systems. The other reason I disable it is because I use DiskWarrior on occasion to clean things up and it wouldn't ever work with Journaling enabled. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, it would just say there was a critical error or something like that and it could not repair the disk (something that DOES NOT make you comfortable). As it turns out, when I turned off Journaling, everything worked fine.

I could see it as being important for a server and MAYBE a boot drive IF you capture to a second drive, but the only data loss I've ever experienced was once in OS9, that DiskWarrior recovered, and several times because my IBM DeathStars died and journaling wouldn't have saved them anyway.
If it's something you worry about because of a power outage, I always run off a battery backup anyway. It gives better quality power and there's nothing cooler than surfing your cable internet during a blackout. I also try to keep regular backups of important folders and as soon as I get my OS and all of my apps installed I run Carbon Copy Cloner and make a backup of the entire system so I don't have to do it again. If anything ever goes terribly wrong, just low-level format and restore from the Cloned Copy (you will need a second drive for this). I also use imSafe to run my incremental backups (to another drive) and it seems to do quite well, and it's cheap and fast.

...just so you get an idea of my setup
1x80Gig boot drive
1x80Gig backup drive (this is where I send the backups and Cloned the boot drive to)
2x160Gig Drives in a striped RAID (this is my scratch disk and capture drive)
I also have an assortment of Firewire drives as well.
If it's a project I'm working on in FCP I will also drop a backup of the project file on a Zip Disk or CD-RW as well, just in case. Remember, I have actually lost all 4 drives at once, a couple of times! OUCH!

Michael Botkin · March 4th, 2005, 10:36 PM

I just received my 17" 1.67 powerbook today and tried to follow your instructions and I was unable to perform the low level format. I tried using firewire target mode as well, but the options box was always grayed out and not selectable. Anyway, I erased the drive a few times and then started from scratch anyway with a extended/non-journaled format. Hopefully this will help keep the drive healthy anyway.

Thanks,
Mike

Rhett Allen · March 4th, 2005, 11:00 PM

When you select the drive in the panel to the right did you select the top volume or the one under it. For instance my primary drive lists "Fujitsu...." (the physical device) and under it, it says "Macintosh HD", this is the mounted volume on the device. You need to make certain you are selecting the correct device because it won't let you do a low level format of the mounted volume, only the device. (at least that's the way I remember it)

Kevin Kocak · March 5th, 2005, 04:20 PM

The latest OS update is 10.3.8. Known to cause the fans to go wild in G5's. I WOULD NOT update to 10.3.8. Stay at 10.3.5 but if you are dying to upgrade go up to 10.3.7 but I would not go with .8.
I am running 10.3.3, VERY stable, and not planning to upgrade until 10.4. There are just too many buggy things going on with the last few updates.

Stuart Bloom · March 5th, 2005, 05:22 PM

There is another problem with 10.3.8. Apparently it conflicts with the new ATI Radeon graphics card, the X800XT for the Mac. After installing the latest OS, my 23" Apple Cinema Display would develop flickering lines and curves after around 15 minutes. Rebooting would cure the problem for a short time but the lines always returned. Additionally, it sounded like the fan on the graphics card was running much faster and louder. After reinstalling 10.3.7, I have had no further problems. E-mails from ATI stated that they have had other similar reports and are working on a patch.

Michael Botkin · March 6th, 2005, 01:14 AM

Rhett,

I picked the volume listed underneath, should I have picked the top? Anyway, I did erase a few times and then started from scratch per your instructions, so I may try to do the carbon copy, then format again, and reload the clone for kicks, but I'll probably be fine the way it is now I'd think.

Thanks for the info,
Mike

Rhett Allen · March 6th, 2005, 01:44 PM

Correct, you should have picked the top one.
If it's all installed now you can run Carbon Copy Cloner and back the whole thing up (remember to select "make bootable") then boot from the clone and erase the first drive and clone it back. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but in my experience, every single machine I have set up with the low level format has been considerably more stable and doesn't display some of the problems that I have seen others have (like flakey upgrades and unexplained glitches).
I will add though that this method was more important on earlier versions of OS9 and under, and earlier versions of OSX.
I am usually about one update behind Apple with system upgrades (currently running 10.3.7) and I don't encourage running updates until they have been out for at least a couple of weeks and you have checked the Apple FCP forums to see what problems people have had with it. Sometimes they can wreak havoc and sometimes they are a blessing.

February 4th, 2005, 03:38 AM	#1
Michiel van der Zeeuw Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 27	OSX and apps: installation order Hello Finally made the plunge, next week I will be moving from my beloved G4 Powerbook to a 2Ghz DP G5 (3GB RAM). On the Powerbook I am running 10.3.6, the G5 comes with 10.3.5 installed. I want to install the following apps on the G5: - FCP 4.5 - AE 6.5 - Adobe CS What is the correct order for installing & updating these apps and the OS? Update OSX first (should I?) or should I first install the apps and then get the available updates for both the OS and the apps? (and in which order?) Many thx in advance Michiel

March 4th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#6
Michael Botkin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 70	I just received my 17" 1.67 powerbook today and tried to follow your instructions and I was unable to perform the low level format. I tried using firewire target mode as well, but the options box was always grayed out and not selectable. Anyway, I erased the drive a few times and then started from scratch anyway with a extended/non-journaled format. Hopefully this will help keep the drive healthy anyway. Thanks, Mike __________________ Check out media and photographs at the brand new: http://www.coalmarch.com

March 6th, 2005, 01:14 AM	#10
Michael Botkin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 70	Rhett, I picked the volume listed underneath, should I have picked the top? Anyway, I did erase a few times and then started from scratch per your instructions, so I may try to do the carbon copy, then format again, and reload the clone for kicks, but I'll probably be fine the way it is now I'd think. Thanks for the info, Mike __________________ Check out media and photographs at the brand new: http://www.coalmarch.com

February 4th, 2005, 01:43 PM	#2
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	If you are starting from scratch with a new computer I would take the extra time to do a low level format of the hard drive first. To do this: 1. Boot from the OSX CD (a copy of Disk Utility is on it) or from your Powerbook with the G5 in target disk mode. For target disk mode turn off G5, connect Firewire from Powerbook "while it's running" to G5, hold down the "T" key while starting up the G5 until the screen just shows a big firewire symbol. 2. Launch Disk Utility on Powerbook. 3. The G5's hard drive shows up as a Firewire drive so select it and go to the erase tab. 4. Select Mac OS Extended (NOT Journaled) 5. Click on "options" at the bottom and select, "low level format" When it is finished (may take a while), quit "DU" and eject the Firewire drive (your G5 in this case), then restart the G5 and pop in the install CD for OSX. This usually gives you a much cleaner and stable system to start with. Install OSX (the one that shipped with your machine). Do a full install including the BSD sub-sysytem. Go through the motions of setting everything up (user account, internet etc.) 1. Fire-up Classic (it's in the preference panes). Ok, you can shut it (Classic) down now. 2. Now install QuickTime Pro (the serial number is on your FCP CD). 3. Install FCP and then all it's goodies. 4. Launch FCP and set it up. 5. Install Photoshop CS first and launch it. (now you can install other CS stuff if you have it, Illustrator etc.) 6. Install After Effects. NOW go update all your apps. I haven't had any problems with FCPHD on 10.3.7 on my G4 Powerbook but I don't have a G5... yet. The only really key thing to remember is to launch your new apps at least once before continuing on and Photoshop should be the first Adobe product installed. I can't remember exactly why but it has something to do with color settings. I always run a low level format on new drives and it seems to make a big difference in the long run.

February 8th, 2005, 05:22 AM	#3
Michiel van der Zeeuw Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 27	Thanks Rhett, sounds like the way to go. Appr how long will a low level format take on a 160 Gig HD? Thx Michiel

February 8th, 2005, 09:26 AM	#4
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	Is there a particular reason you suggested turning Journaling off Rhett? Especially on the boot drive? The performance hit is less than 5% in tests I have seen and it can save users from a lot of problems...

February 8th, 2005, 03:33 PM	#5
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	A low level format on a 160G drive might take a couple of hours (maybe). Basically it writes a series of zeros across the entire surface of the drive. It might not take that long, it's been a while since I did it to a drive that big. The reason I disable Journaling is because it "could" cause problems. I don't know specifically what the performance hit is (I know it's not huge) but I have seen it do strange things on heavily used editing systems. The other reason I disable it is because I use DiskWarrior on occasion to clean things up and it wouldn't ever work with Journaling enabled. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, it would just say there was a critical error or something like that and it could not repair the disk (something that DOES NOT make you comfortable). As it turns out, when I turned off Journaling, everything worked fine. I could see it as being important for a server and MAYBE a boot drive IF you capture to a second drive, but the only data loss I've ever experienced was once in OS9, that DiskWarrior recovered, and several times because my IBM DeathStars died and journaling wouldn't have saved them anyway. If it's something you worry about because of a power outage, I always run off a battery backup anyway. It gives better quality power and there's nothing cooler than surfing your cable internet during a blackout. I also try to keep regular backups of important folders and as soon as I get my OS and all of my apps installed I run Carbon Copy Cloner and make a backup of the entire system so I don't have to do it again. If anything ever goes terribly wrong, just low-level format and restore from the Cloned Copy (you will need a second drive for this). I also use imSafe to run my incremental backups (to another drive) and it seems to do quite well, and it's cheap and fast. ...just so you get an idea of my setup 1x80Gig boot drive 1x80Gig backup drive (this is where I send the backups and Cloned the boot drive to) 2x160Gig Drives in a striped RAID (this is my scratch disk and capture drive) I also have an assortment of Firewire drives as well. If it's a project I'm working on in FCP I will also drop a backup of the project file on a Zip Disk or CD-RW as well, just in case. Remember, I have actually lost all 4 drives at once, a couple of times! OUCH!

March 4th, 2005, 11:00 PM	#7
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	When you select the drive in the panel to the right did you select the top volume or the one under it. For instance my primary drive lists "Fujitsu...." (the physical device) and under it, it says "Macintosh HD", this is the mounted volume on the device. You need to make certain you are selecting the correct device because it won't let you do a low level format of the mounted volume, only the device. (at least that's the way I remember it)

March 5th, 2005, 04:20 PM	#8
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	The latest OS update is 10.3.8. Known to cause the fans to go wild in G5's. I WOULD NOT update to 10.3.8. Stay at 10.3.5 but if you are dying to upgrade go up to 10.3.7 but I would not go with .8. I am running 10.3.3, VERY stable, and not planning to upgrade until 10.4. There are just too many buggy things going on with the last few updates.

March 5th, 2005, 05:22 PM	#9
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	There is another problem with 10.3.8. Apparently it conflicts with the new ATI Radeon graphics card, the X800XT for the Mac. After installing the latest OS, my 23" Apple Cinema Display would develop flickering lines and curves after around 15 minutes. Rebooting would cure the problem for a short time but the lines always returned. Additionally, it sounded like the fan on the graphics card was running much faster and louder. After reinstalling 10.3.7, I have had no further problems. E-mails from ATI stated that they have had other similar reports and are working on a patch.

March 6th, 2005, 01:44 PM	#11
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Correct, you should have picked the top one. If it's all installed now you can run Carbon Copy Cloner and back the whole thing up (remember to select "make bootable") then boot from the clone and erase the first drive and clone it back. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but in my experience, every single machine I have set up with the low level format has been considerably more stable and doesn't display some of the problems that I have seen others have (like flakey upgrades and unexplained glitches). I will add though that this method was more important on earlier versions of OS9 and under, and earlier versions of OSX. I am usually about one update behind Apple with system upgrades (currently running 10.3.7) and I don't encourage running updates until they have been out for at least a couple of weeks and you have checked the Apple FCP forums to see what problems people have had with it. Sometimes they can wreak havoc and sometimes they are a blessing.