Smooth iMovie/FCP HD HDV Workflow

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2005, 08:12 AM

Hey all,

I'm having issues with the HD10, even with plugging and unplugging the firewire, I'm still getting snow on the iMovie HD screen. Any tips?

Thanx,

heath

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2005, 08:58 PM

Does everyone else's iMovie capture at 1/2 speed? What am I doing wrong?

heath

Mike Curtis · January 26th, 2005, 09:10 PM

it's contingent upon processor speed, among other things.

It's having to convert HDV to AIC, that's a lot of math.

-mike

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2005, 09:22 PM

I figured it'll play back at normal speed.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this workflow...

heath

Frederic Lumiere · January 27th, 2005, 11:40 AM

There seems to be an issue with vertical lines when viewing iMovie captured and generated AIC in the canvas.

My suggested solution is:

- Import the AIC in the FCp browser
- Set the sequence to 1920 X 1080 (Non anamorphic)
- Keep the rest of the settings the same (Square, Upper, 29.97, AIC 1080i)

- Use Media Manager to make an offline copy of your project in the codec of choice (DV, MJpeg, DVCPRO HD) by using the recompress feature
- Edit in that codec
- Rebuild the timeline online using the AIC clips

Also... Jerry Miles from Promax discovered that you can just Click and drag the footage from iMove right into FCP HD... Yes, from the app without having to show content from the iMovie project.

I did the 1080i test on the 5 Freeway yesterday... Took 4.5 Hours from Irvine to LA! (It's a 45 mile trip) Since we weren't moving at all for 1.5 hours, I decided to do some work.

Frederic

Heath McKnight · January 27th, 2005, 12:09 PM

Frederic and everyone,

If I captured on Lumiere HD 1.5 (beta v. 8) and cut in the 1080i DVCPro HD codec, can I use iMovie HD to go back to the FX1 in native HD?

heath

Murad Toor · January 27th, 2005, 03:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frederic Haubrich :

Clicking on 'Advance' for the compressor will allow you to set the codec to 720p or 1080i or other (more coming soon...) -->>>

Sounds like someone's working on making 1080p24 out of the Sony's 1080i60 footage. :)

Thank you Frederic!

The only question I have is what the new iMovie's timeline limit is. FCP's is 4 hours. What's iMovie 5's?

Nate Weaver · January 27th, 2005, 05:01 PM

Hi all,

I'm currently posting a music vid I shot on Tues with 2 FX1s. I chose the FX1 over the DVX for two reasons (I''ve been shooting all my vids on the DVX since it became available)

1-Higher res after downconversion

2-I needed slow motion for this project. I decided to try (and then tested last week) shooting in 30i, and then slowing down and simultaneously downconverting in After Effects. The idea was to treat each HD field like an SD frame, thereby giving 60fps source material to work with.

So I'm post-processing and downconverting all my footage now before the edit. I was having trouble bringing my iMovie clips into FCP...I was seeing the weird right hand side vertical line problem, among other things. Here's what I've learned:

iMovie takes the 1440x1080 HDV and transcodes to a 1440x1080 AIC QT file. Then it sets a flag in the file to playback at 1920x1080. QT Player and FCP read this flag correctly.

When you place this clip in a 1920x1080 timeline, it's the QT library unsqueezing the clip before FCP can do anything to it. This causes problems in FCP (and also in After Effects, as I found out). I was getting ghost chroma lines every few frames, and other artifacts.

So here's how you fix it: Open your iMovie AIC clips in QT Player Pro, Apple-J to get movie track properties. Select Video Track on the left, and then Size on the right pulldown. Resize the clip from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080. Save, then close.

Bring the clip back into FCP...now the clip will be un-anamorphasized. Go into the clips properties and tell FCP it's an anamorphic clip. Then use a Fredric's 1440 AIC sequence settings. Sucess!

By the way, the normal-speed sections of my music video I shot in Cineframe30, because I needed a 24P look but didn't have time to do 30i to 24P tests. As it turns out, 30P FX1 footage converts to 24P MUCH nicer than I would have predicted. I'm going to convert all my 30P performance footage to 24P, adn then edit in a 24P SD timeline.

Cheers,
Nate Weaver

Christopher C. Murphy · January 28th, 2005, 07:29 AM

Hey Nate, can you post the link??

Nate Weaver · January 28th, 2005, 11:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Hey Nate, can you post the link?? -->>>

Er, link to what?

Heath McKnight · January 28th, 2005, 01:36 PM

Frederic,

Quick question: In my settings tab on the sequence, I've set it to DVCPro HD 1080i 1280x1080. Should I keep it like that, or customize it to 1440x1080?

Also, should the QuickTime settings also be on DVCPro HD 1080i60 or is regular DV (720x480) okay?

heath

Nate Weaver · January 28th, 2005, 03:12 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Frederic,

Quick question: In my settings tab on the sequence, I've set it to DVCPro HD 1080i 1280x1080. Should I keep it like that, or customize it to 1440x1080?

Also, should the QuickTime settings also be on DVCPro HD 1080i60 or is regular DV (720x480) okay?

heath -->>>

I'm not Fredric, but I'll re-iterate his published settings and also the settings that worked for me...

None of the DVCPRO HD sequences will work with AIC clips. Both the resolution and codec is wrong (that is, it's wrong unless you like rendering).

Sequence should look like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/nweaver/.Pictures/FCP_AIC.jpg

Heath McKnight · January 28th, 2005, 03:50 PM

Okay, I did that, but the image is now stretched out horizontally and when I activate 16:9, it gets squashed down even more...

heath

Filip Kovcin · January 28th, 2005, 04:08 PM

Frederic,

thank you for your nice method!

i have a question concerning timecode. is original timecode imported as in original? i meand each frame has exact TC as original one (on the hdv tape) - i know that FX1 has different approach than Z1 if we are talking about timecodes, but it's importand to know that.

if i need to do the following:

- going from HDV tape to disk using iMovie
- importing from iMovie, exporting to FCP
- editing on FCP HD
- recording back to HDV camera/rcorder

will the SOURCE timecode be exaxtly as on tapes?

thank you,

filip

Nate Weaver · January 28th, 2005, 06:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Okay, I did that, but the image is now stretched out horizontally and when I activate 16:9, it gets squashed down even more...

heath -->>>

There's lots of places to go wrong, as I found out when trying to get this to work. What are the properties on your clips?

In FCP, as you scan down the properties, each clip should be 1440x1080, square pixels, anamorphic. I also forgot to mention to define the upper field as dominant in clip properties. I can't remember if this makes a difference in aspect ratio in FCP, but it does in After Effects.

I didn't stress this in my first post, but it's very important to resize your iMovie clips in QT Player Pro. If FCP sees your clips as 1920x1080, none of this will work. Size them to 1440 in QT Player.

January 26th, 2005, 08:12 AM	#16
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Hey all, I'm having issues with the HD10, even with plugging and unplugging the firewire, I'm still getting snow on the iMovie HD screen. Any tips? Thanx, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 26th, 2005, 08:58 PM	#17
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Does everyone else's iMovie capture at 1/2 speed? What am I doing wrong? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 26th, 2005, 09:10 PM	#18
Mike Curtis HD for Indies Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87	why HDV import is 1/2 speed it's contingent upon processor speed, among other things. It's having to convert HDV to AIC, that's a lot of math. -mike __________________ Mike Curtis HD For Indies - Hi Def Filmmaking & Post for Independent Filmmakers http://www.hdforindies.com mike@hdforindies.com

January 26th, 2005, 09:22 PM	#19
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I figured it'll play back at normal speed. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this workflow... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 27th, 2005, 11:40 AM	#20
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Update on Workflow for 1080i Footage There seems to be an issue with vertical lines when viewing iMovie captured and generated AIC in the canvas. My suggested solution is: - Import the AIC in the FCp browser - Set the sequence to 1920 X 1080 (Non anamorphic) - Keep the rest of the settings the same (Square, Upper, 29.97, AIC 1080i) - Use Media Manager to make an offline copy of your project in the codec of choice (DV, MJpeg, DVCPRO HD) by using the recompress feature - Edit in that codec - Rebuild the timeline online using the AIC clips Also... Jerry Miles from Promax discovered that you can just Click and drag the footage from iMove right into FCP HD... Yes, from the app without having to show content from the iMovie project. I did the 1080i test on the 5 Freeway yesterday... Took 4.5 Hours from Irvine to LA! (It's a 45 mile trip) Since we weren't moving at all for 1.5 hours, I decided to do some work. Frederic

January 27th, 2005, 12:09 PM	#21
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Frederic and everyone, If I captured on Lumiere HD 1.5 (beta v. 8) and cut in the 1080i DVCPro HD codec, can I use iMovie HD to go back to the FX1 in native HD? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 27th, 2005, 03:24 PM	#22
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	Re: Smooth iMovie/FCP HD HDV Workflow <<<-- Originally posted by Frederic Haubrich : Clicking on 'Advance' for the compressor will allow you to set the codec to 720p or 1080i or other (more coming soon...) -->>> Sounds like someone's working on making 1080p24 out of the Sony's 1080i60 footage. :) Thank you Frederic! The only question I have is what the new iMovie's timeline limit is. FCP's is 4 hours. What's iMovie 5's?

January 27th, 2005, 05:01 PM	#23
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	My findings Hi all, I'm currently posting a music vid I shot on Tues with 2 FX1s. I chose the FX1 over the DVX for two reasons (I''ve been shooting all my vids on the DVX since it became available) 1-Higher res after downconversion 2-I needed slow motion for this project. I decided to try (and then tested last week) shooting in 30i, and then slowing down and simultaneously downconverting in After Effects. The idea was to treat each HD field like an SD frame, thereby giving 60fps source material to work with. So I'm post-processing and downconverting all my footage now before the edit. I was having trouble bringing my iMovie clips into FCP...I was seeing the weird right hand side vertical line problem, among other things. Here's what I've learned: iMovie takes the 1440x1080 HDV and transcodes to a 1440x1080 AIC QT file. Then it sets a flag in the file to playback at 1920x1080. QT Player and FCP read this flag correctly. When you place this clip in a 1920x1080 timeline, it's the QT library unsqueezing the clip before FCP can do anything to it. This causes problems in FCP (and also in After Effects, as I found out). I was getting ghost chroma lines every few frames, and other artifacts. So here's how you fix it: Open your iMovie AIC clips in QT Player Pro, Apple-J to get movie track properties. Select Video Track on the left, and then Size on the right pulldown. Resize the clip from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080. Save, then close. Bring the clip back into FCP...now the clip will be un-anamorphasized. Go into the clips properties and tell FCP it's an anamorphic clip. Then use a Fredric's 1440 AIC sequence settings. Sucess! By the way, the normal-speed sections of my music video I shot in Cineframe30, because I needed a 24P look but didn't have time to do 30i to 24P tests. As it turns out, 30P FX1 footage converts to 24P MUCH nicer than I would have predicted. I'm going to convert all my 30P performance footage to 24P, adn then edit in a 24P SD timeline. Cheers, Nate Weaver

January 28th, 2005, 07:29 AM	#24
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Hey Nate, can you post the link?? __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 28th, 2005, 11:11 AM	#25
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Hey Nate, can you post the link?? -->>> Er, link to what?

January 28th, 2005, 01:36 PM	#26
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Frederic, Quick question: In my settings tab on the sequence, I've set it to DVCPro HD 1080i 1280x1080. Should I keep it like that, or customize it to 1440x1080? Also, should the QuickTime settings also be on DVCPro HD 1080i60 or is regular DV (720x480) okay? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 28th, 2005, 03:12 PM	#27
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Frederic, Quick question: In my settings tab on the sequence, I've set it to DVCPro HD 1080i 1280x1080. Should I keep it like that, or customize it to 1440x1080? Also, should the QuickTime settings also be on DVCPro HD 1080i60 or is regular DV (720x480) okay? heath -->>> I'm not Fredric, but I'll re-iterate his published settings and also the settings that worked for me... None of the DVCPRO HD sequences will work with AIC clips. Both the resolution and codec is wrong (that is, it's wrong unless you like rendering). Sequence should look like this: http://homepage.mac.com/nweaver/.Pictures/FCP_AIC.jpg

January 28th, 2005, 03:50 PM	#28
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Okay, I did that, but the image is now stretched out horizontally and when I activate 16:9, it gets squashed down even more... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 28th, 2005, 04:08 PM	#29
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	time code issue Frederic, thank you for your nice method! i have a question concerning timecode. is original timecode imported as in original? i meand each frame has exact TC as original one (on the hdv tape) - i know that FX1 has different approach than Z1 if we are talking about timecodes, but it's importand to know that. if i need to do the following: - going from HDV tape to disk using iMovie - importing from iMovie, exporting to FCP - editing on FCP HD - recording back to HDV camera/rcorder will the SOURCE timecode be exaxtly as on tapes? thank you, filip

January 28th, 2005, 06:51 PM	#30
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Okay, I did that, but the image is now stretched out horizontally and when I activate 16:9, it gets squashed down even more... heath -->>> There's lots of places to go wrong, as I found out when trying to get this to work. What are the properties on your clips? In FCP, as you scan down the properties, each clip should be 1440x1080, square pixels, anamorphic. I also forgot to mention to define the upper field as dominant in clip properties. I can't remember if this makes a difference in aspect ratio in FCP, but it does in After Effects. I didn't stress this in my first post, but it's very important to resize your iMovie clips in QT Player Pro. If FCP sees your clips as 1920x1080, none of this will work. Size them to 1440 in QT Player.