Apple announces HDV support via Final Cut Express HD and iMovie HD

Christopher C. Murphy · January 12th, 2005, 10:58 AM

I think you may be right because I've seen no mention anywhere in regards to the Z1...like it doesn't exist. The Sony president didn't mention it (but, did mention the FX1) when he talked about the broadcast market that Sony takes care of.

All signs point to a decent sized announcement for the "Pro" users. There is no way in a million years that Apple could include HDV abilities with this latest offering and exclude it from Pro users....at least for not longer than a couple weeks? It would be very strange, but the thing that makes this seem almost normal? They are aligning the products name-wise..meaning, "iMovie HD", "Final Cut Express HD" and "Final Cut Pro HD". If the marketing departments are behind this whole thing - it probably means we're already "in the fold" as far as they're concerned.

Christopher C. Murphy · January 12th, 2005, 11:02 AM

Hey Charles, thanks man! This is the first time I've mentioned it anywhere...maybe I should delete that part? Juuusssttt in case.......

Dylan Pank · January 13th, 2005, 06:34 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kyle Harmon : iMovie will be part of the iLife '05 package and will ship on 1/22/05 for $79.

Final Cut Express HD will cost $299 or Final Cut Express version 1 or 2 users can upgrade for $99. It features HDV support and will also include LiveType and Soundtrack, and will Apple store is indicating 3-4 weeks on shipping. -->>>

Gah! well, then I'm off to eat my hat! It's really good news I suppose but I hate being wrong!

<<<-- Apple has not announced any HDV upgrades for Final Cut Pro HD yet.

http://www.apple.com/finalcut/ -->>>

Can't be long now though...

It's funny those people saying they'd dumped all their macs to go over to PC, just a month or so's wait and they could saved a packet just by getting FCE-HD, at least until FCP updates.

My guess as to why FCP-HD doesn't yet support HDV would be around timecode issues. For pro work, batch catpure is essential, and I can see a lot of people planning a workflow of capturing in DV (to maximise realtime editing capabilities) before onlining with HDV.

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM

You won't be able to capture in DV then online in HDV, though it may happen if that timecode issue is resolved. I don't want to shell out $300 for FCEHD, so I'll just buy iMovie HD for 10 bucks and call it a day.

heath

Dylan Pank · January 13th, 2005, 09:22 AM

Heath, I don't specifically KNOW of any time code issues. However seeing as how much of FCP's funtionality is based around timecode (compared to FCE and iMovie which have NO TC functionality) I was just making an educated guess.

Does anyone know if there are specific problems in handling HDV timecode?

Joshua Starnes · January 13th, 2005, 10:35 AM

I'm interested to see if you can use Apple's DVCProHD codec with iMovie (which up till now, will only export a DV stream). You could then capture in iMovie, and export a DVCProHD file for FCP.

I don't think it's going to happen - iMovie HD will probably only deal with streams as well - but it would be nice work around until the update.

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2005, 11:03 AM

Dylan,

Check out our report on free-run timecode and the Z1 and the comparison chart between the FX1 and the Z1. There are timecode issues which means with the FX1, for now, could only be done with capture now.

Joshua,

I don't believe you can export DVCPro HD from iMovie.

heath

Joshua Starnes · January 13th, 2005, 01:02 PM

<<<-- Joshua,

I don't believe you can export DVCPro HD from iMovie.

heath -->>>

I know you can't do it now. And I'm pretty sure it won't be a feature of iMovieHD - it was just a thought about a possible work around.

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2005, 01:10 PM

Joshua,

When you can find it, let us know! I know I'm interested! But I'd rather avoid doing more to edit, I like plug-and-play, and I'm okay with iMovie HD for a little while.

heath

Dylan Pank · January 13th, 2005, 01:17 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Dylan,

Check out our report on free-run timecode and the Z1 and the comparison chart between the FX1 and the Z1. There are timecode issues which means with the FX1, for now, could only be done with capture now. -->>>

Heath - I'm probably going blind or something (after marking so much student work) but I couldn't see anything on those pages that refer to timecode problems on the FX1. It seems to me that the FX1 has the same limitations as the VX1000 (no programmable TC. Drop Frame Only on NTSC etc) while the Z1 has what the PD150/170 has (programmable time code, user bits, TC regen, TC make etc).

I'm not sure what this has to do with the lack of a batch capture option. VX1000s could be used to batch capture with DV, I'm sure the FX1 be used for the DV batch capture, just not in HDV mode, and I have a feeling it's the same for the Z1.

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2005, 02:08 PM

If I'm not mistaken, you wouldn't be able to batch capture HD10/HD1/FX1 footage. Something about the timecode not going over the firewire cable, but again, I might be wrong here.

heath

Murad Toor · January 14th, 2005, 05:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : If I'm not mistaken, you wouldn't be able to batch capture HD10/HD1/FX1 footage. Something about the timecode not going over the firewire cable, but again, I might be wrong here.

heath -->>>

When I control playback and capture of my HD10 footage with DVHSCap, I see some numbers that resemble timecode. As far as I'm concerned that is timecode. My guess is that timecode isn't part of the HDV spec, but timecode is written on the tapes anyhow for some good reason. It shouldn't be a huge feat of engineering to associate those timecode like numbers with the footage, but of course I/B/P frame issues probably get in the way.

Given that, and my experience with iMovie 2 and 3, I'm guessing iMovie 5 will cut out the first (for sure) and last (maybe) GOP as it captures HDV. The reason for this is to hide the inherent audio lag in new clips (clips as iMovie understands them - everything between a start-and-stop-record).

January 12th, 2005, 10:58 AM	#31
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I think you may be right because I've seen no mention anywhere in regards to the Z1...like it doesn't exist. The Sony president didn't mention it (but, did mention the FX1) when he talked about the broadcast market that Sony takes care of. All signs point to a decent sized announcement for the "Pro" users. There is no way in a million years that Apple could include HDV abilities with this latest offering and exclude it from Pro users....at least for not longer than a couple weeks? It would be very strange, but the thing that makes this seem almost normal? They are aligning the products name-wise..meaning, "iMovie HD", "Final Cut Express HD" and "Final Cut Pro HD". If the marketing departments are behind this whole thing - it probably means we're already "in the fold" as far as they're concerned. __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 12th, 2005, 11:02 AM	#32
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Hey Charles, thanks man! This is the first time I've mentioned it anywhere...maybe I should delete that part? Juuusssttt in case....... __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 13th, 2005, 06:34 AM	#33
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Re: Apple announces HDV support via Final Cut Express HD and iMovie HD <<<-- Originally posted by Kyle Harmon : iMovie will be part of the iLife '05 package and will ship on 1/22/05 for $79. Final Cut Express HD will cost $299 or Final Cut Express version 1 or 2 users can upgrade for $99. It features HDV support and will also include LiveType and Soundtrack, and will Apple store is indicating 3-4 weeks on shipping. -->>> Gah! well, then I'm off to eat my hat! It's really good news I suppose but I hate being wrong! <<<-- Apple has not announced any HDV upgrades for Final Cut Pro HD yet. http://www.apple.com/finalcut/ -->>> Can't be long now though... It's funny those people saying they'd dumped all their macs to go over to PC, just a month or so's wait and they could saved a packet just by getting FCE-HD, at least until FCP updates. My guess as to why FCP-HD doesn't yet support HDV would be around timecode issues. For pro work, batch catpure is essential, and I can see a lot of people planning a workflow of capturing in DV (to maximise realtime editing capabilities) before onlining with HDV.

January 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM	#34
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	You won't be able to capture in DV then online in HDV, though it may happen if that timecode issue is resolved. I don't want to shell out $300 for FCEHD, so I'll just buy iMovie HD for 10 bucks and call it a day. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 13th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#37
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Dylan, Check out our report on free-run timecode and the Z1 and the comparison chart between the FX1 and the Z1. There are timecode issues which means with the FX1, for now, could only be done with capture now. Joshua, I don't believe you can export DVCPro HD from iMovie. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 13th, 2005, 09:22 AM	#35
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Heath, I don't specifically KNOW of any time code issues. However seeing as how much of FCP's funtionality is based around timecode (compared to FCE and iMovie which have NO TC functionality) I was just making an educated guess. Does anyone know if there are specific problems in handling HDV timecode?

January 13th, 2005, 10:35 AM	#36
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	I'm interested to see if you can use Apple's DVCProHD codec with iMovie (which up till now, will only export a DV stream). You could then capture in iMovie, and export a DVCProHD file for FCP. I don't think it's going to happen - iMovie HD will probably only deal with streams as well - but it would be nice work around until the update.

January 13th, 2005, 01:02 PM	#38
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	<<<-- Joshua, I don't believe you can export DVCPro HD from iMovie. heath -->>> I know you can't do it now. And I'm pretty sure it won't be a feature of iMovieHD - it was just a thought about a possible work around.

January 13th, 2005, 01:10 PM	#39
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Joshua, When you can find it, let us know! I know I'm interested! But I'd rather avoid doing more to edit, I like plug-and-play, and I'm okay with iMovie HD for a little while. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 13th, 2005, 01:17 PM	#40
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Dylan, Check out our report on free-run timecode and the Z1 and the comparison chart between the FX1 and the Z1. There are timecode issues which means with the FX1, for now, could only be done with capture now. -->>> Heath - I'm probably going blind or something (after marking so much student work) but I couldn't see anything on those pages that refer to timecode problems on the FX1. It seems to me that the FX1 has the same limitations as the VX1000 (no programmable TC. Drop Frame Only on NTSC etc) while the Z1 has what the PD150/170 has (programmable time code, user bits, TC regen, TC make etc). I'm not sure what this has to do with the lack of a batch capture option. VX1000s could be used to batch capture with DV, I'm sure the FX1 be used for the DV batch capture, just not in HDV mode, and I have a feeling it's the same for the Z1.

January 13th, 2005, 02:08 PM	#41
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	If I'm not mistaken, you wouldn't be able to batch capture HD10/HD1/FX1 footage. Something about the timecode not going over the firewire cable, but again, I might be wrong here. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 14th, 2005, 05:20 AM	#42
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : If I'm not mistaken, you wouldn't be able to batch capture HD10/HD1/FX1 footage. Something about the timecode not going over the firewire cable, but again, I might be wrong here. heath -->>> When I control playback and capture of my HD10 footage with DVHSCap, I see some numbers that resemble timecode. As far as I'm concerned that is timecode. My guess is that timecode isn't part of the HDV spec, but timecode is written on the tapes anyhow for some good reason. It shouldn't be a huge feat of engineering to associate those timecode like numbers with the footage, but of course I/B/P frame issues probably get in the way. Given that, and my experience with iMovie 2 and 3, I'm guessing iMovie 5 will cut out the first (for sure) and last (maybe) GOP as it captures HDV. The reason for this is to hide the inherent audio lag in new clips (clips as iMovie understands them - everything between a start-and-stop-record).