Apple announces HDV support via Final Cut Express HD and iMovie HD

Heath McKnight · January 11th, 2005, 11:00 PM

Good point, Rhett.

heath

Ursula Badertscher · January 12th, 2005, 02:02 AM

I think at least Apple should offer FCP users a "downgrade" to FCE HD for the $99 upgrade price.

Christopher C. Murphy · January 12th, 2005, 06:35 AM

Ursula, that's funny...but actually makes sense. Can we "downgrade" to FCP Express to get HDV support?? Something just doesn't seem right here.

Kyle Harmon · January 12th, 2005, 09:31 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rhett Allen : There is a difference in the way iMovie and FCP handle video making them slightly incompatible which makes it suck even more. (iMovie uses DV streams .vs FCP's DV) Sometimes I think it would be cool to just launch iMovie to capture a bunch of tape and log it into bins. I like the simple interface and with the new features it would be a cool little app for easy captures. -->>>

One thing that the new version of Final Cut Express HD advertises is "Seamless iMovie Import":

"Seamless iMovie Import

Import iMovie projects complete with effects, transitions and audio levels, then enhance your project by choosing from hundreds of effects and transitions, or create composited video collages with multiple layers."

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 09:42 AM

It just dawned on me, we can't use imported iMovie or Final Cut Express HD projects (ie, HDV) into FCP HD.

heath

Kevin Shaw · January 12th, 2005, 10:04 AM

I'd personally call it very odd for Apple to announce HDV support in their consumer editing applications before they announce it for FCP-HD, but there are rumors they'll add the latter fairly soon. Either way, it's old news compared to everything that's happening for HDV on PCs.

Regarding whether the Sony FX1 is a "pro" camera: I've seen several user reports indicating that it generates better output when downsampled to SD resolution than almost all SD cameras--and of course it blows them all away when viewed at full HD resolution on an HDTV. I don't know of a single person who has bought this camera for consumer purposes, but professional videographers are lining up in droves to buy it!

Christopher C. Murphy · January 12th, 2005, 10:09 AM

We can import via iMovie into the timeline and then export to that new special codec...right? Did you guys watch the Mac presentation with Steve Jobs? I think he said that Quicktime 7 will be in the new iLife in about a week.

So, it's my assumption that we can import via firewire into iMovie - then export it to whatever editable format it allows us to export. The DVCPro HD codec is going to be available in iMovie right? That's for 1080i and 720p HDV....so, for $79 we can get iLife on Jan. 22nd and be able to import via firewire HDV. It's basically like the Lumiere HD app, but with the added benefit that it's imported into the "world's easiest video editing app". (That's what Steve said...I tend to agree.)

The only thing that scares me a little bit? Mr. Joe and Jane Consumer get HDV before all professionals do....are we in the wrong business for making $$ now or what? We buy all this high-end crap and they're practically giving it away now! (software) It's scary to think that anyone that's buying a computer right now has a complete non-linear editing High Definition suite.

This doesn't work to well with most video production business plans. It's that whole "My Uncle Joe can shoot my wedding in HD for free" thing all over again....

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 10:17 AM

But we'll have to convert it to something we can edit in Final Cut Pro HD, right?

heath

Charles Papert · January 12th, 2005, 10:34 AM

>>We buy all this high-end crap and they're practically giving it away now! (software) It's scary to think that anyone that's buying a computer right now has a complete non-linear editing High Definition suite.

This doesn't work to well with most video production business plans. It's that whole "My Uncle Joe can shoot my wedding in HD for free" thing all over again....>>

Christopher:

Imagine being a high-end post house owner who has invested hundreds of thousands in gear saying the same thing about Final Cut Pro a few years back...or a Betacam owner seeing his business undercut by a guy with a DV camera...

This has been a continuing trend for a while. And yet many of those folks who were "threatened" are still making their living; movies are still being made with Panavision, not Panasonics. I don't think the paradigm you suggested is going to happen overnight. It's going to be a heartbeat before HDV is fully supported by the "pro" apps.

Uncle Joe will keep offering to shoot weddings for free, with or without the extra few hundred lines of resolution, and he's still going to suck at it. Caveat emptor!

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 10:34 AM

Murph,

If Uncle Joe shoots a wedding on DV or HDV, and he isn't a pro, it's gonna look bad regardless.

Also, maybe Apple's reasoning for the consumer release first was because the FX1 is a consumer camera. Maybe they'll have HDV support for the FCP HD soon, or maybe they'll have even more extensive support when the Z1 comes out, like real-time effects, etc.

Personally, I'd like to be able to capture, edit and export HDV footage right now on my FCP HD system. I have a significant amount of money invested in it, like all of us do.

heath

Charles Papert · January 12th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Jinx, Heath, you owe me a Coke.

Christopher C. Murphy · January 12th, 2005, 10:44 AM

You guys are right, of course! (edited for safey sake)

I guess I'm just a little shell-shocked that "HD" isn't common place yet in the living room, but it's going to be viewable, editable and exportable for free on every Mac that ships starting immediately. It's quite amazing that iMovie is now iMovie HD....really, think about it! I know non-pro users will suck at what they do, but even still this is quite amazing that they even get to enter the HD world for $499. (the cost of the new "Mini Mac" that includes the new iMovie HD suite)

Yeah, I'm definately shell-shocked because anyone that buys the FX1 can buy a complete HDV editing system (a rock solid Mac computer no less!) for $499. (mouse, keyboard and a cheap monitor for about $200 more - a grand total of $699) That sure is a killer deal for anyone on a tight budget. It's amazing!

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 10:44 AM

On the way, Charles!

heath

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 10:49 AM

I'd buy the bigger Mac mini for $599 and find a cheap LCD that supports HD resolutions (maybe $300 there).

I am starting to think more and more that Apple has something up their sleeve for when the Z1 comes out--"Full support for 720p and 1080i with special emphasis on the Sony Z1," is what I think Jobs will say. "You can't get that on Express HD or iMovie HD." Or maybe not. <g>

heath

Charles Papert · January 12th, 2005, 10:55 AM

I'm looking forward to see what Panasonic comes out with in the next year.

Things are moving incredibly fast.

January 11th, 2005, 11:00 PM	#16
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Good point, Rhett. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 06:35 AM	#18
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Ursula, that's funny...but actually makes sense. Can we "downgrade" to FCP Express to get HDV support?? Something just doesn't seem right here. __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 12th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#20
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	It just dawned on me, we can't use imported iMovie or Final Cut Express HD projects (ie, HDV) into FCP HD. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 10:09 AM	#22
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	We can import via iMovie into the timeline and then export to that new special codec...right? Did you guys watch the Mac presentation with Steve Jobs? I think he said that Quicktime 7 will be in the new iLife in about a week. So, it's my assumption that we can import via firewire into iMovie - then export it to whatever editable format it allows us to export. The DVCPro HD codec is going to be available in iMovie right? That's for 1080i and 720p HDV....so, for $79 we can get iLife on Jan. 22nd and be able to import via firewire HDV. It's basically like the Lumiere HD app, but with the added benefit that it's imported into the "world's easiest video editing app". (That's what Steve said...I tend to agree.) The only thing that scares me a little bit? Mr. Joe and Jane Consumer get HDV before all professionals do....are we in the wrong business for making $$ now or what? We buy all this high-end crap and they're practically giving it away now! (software) It's scary to think that anyone that's buying a computer right now has a complete non-linear editing High Definition suite. This doesn't work to well with most video production business plans. It's that whole "My Uncle Joe can shoot my wedding in HD for free" thing all over again.... __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 12th, 2005, 10:17 AM	#23
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	But we'll have to convert it to something we can edit in Final Cut Pro HD, right? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 02:02 AM	#17
Ursula Badertscher New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 19	I think at least Apple should offer FCP users a "downgrade" to FCE HD for the $99 upgrade price.

January 12th, 2005, 09:31 AM	#19
Kyle Harmon Tourist Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4	<<<-- Originally posted by Rhett Allen : There is a difference in the way iMovie and FCP handle video making them slightly incompatible which makes it suck even more. (iMovie uses DV streams .vs FCP's DV) Sometimes I think it would be cool to just launch iMovie to capture a bunch of tape and log it into bins. I like the simple interface and with the new features it would be a cool little app for easy captures. -->>> One thing that the new version of Final Cut Express HD advertises is "Seamless iMovie Import": "Seamless iMovie Import Import iMovie projects complete with effects, transitions and audio levels, then enhance your project by choosing from hundreds of effects and transitions, or create composited video collages with multiple layers."

January 12th, 2005, 10:04 AM	#21
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	I'd personally call it very odd for Apple to announce HDV support in their consumer editing applications before they announce it for FCP-HD, but there are rumors they'll add the latter fairly soon. Either way, it's old news compared to everything that's happening for HDV on PCs. Regarding whether the Sony FX1 is a "pro" camera: I've seen several user reports indicating that it generates better output when downsampled to SD resolution than almost all SD cameras--and of course it blows them all away when viewed at full HD resolution on an HDTV. I don't know of a single person who has bought this camera for consumer purposes, but professional videographers are lining up in droves to buy it!

January 12th, 2005, 10:34 AM	#24
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	>>We buy all this high-end crap and they're practically giving it away now! (software) It's scary to think that anyone that's buying a computer right now has a complete non-linear editing High Definition suite. This doesn't work to well with most video production business plans. It's that whole "My Uncle Joe can shoot my wedding in HD for free" thing all over again....>> Christopher: Imagine being a high-end post house owner who has invested hundreds of thousands in gear saying the same thing about Final Cut Pro a few years back...or a Betacam owner seeing his business undercut by a guy with a DV camera... This has been a continuing trend for a while. And yet many of those folks who were "threatened" are still making their living; movies are still being made with Panavision, not Panasonics. I don't think the paradigm you suggested is going to happen overnight. It's going to be a heartbeat before HDV is fully supported by the "pro" apps. Uncle Joe will keep offering to shoot weddings for free, with or without the extra few hundred lines of resolution, and he's still going to suck at it. Caveat emptor! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 12th, 2005, 10:37 AM	#26
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Jinx, Heath, you owe me a Coke. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 12th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#27
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	You guys are right, of course! (edited for safey sake) I guess I'm just a little shell-shocked that "HD" isn't common place yet in the living room, but it's going to be viewable, editable and exportable for free on every Mac that ships starting immediately. It's quite amazing that iMovie is now iMovie HD....really, think about it! I know non-pro users will suck at what they do, but even still this is quite amazing that they even get to enter the HD world for $499. (the cost of the new "Mini Mac" that includes the new iMovie HD suite) Yeah, I'm definately shell-shocked because anyone that buys the FX1 can buy a complete HDV editing system (a rock solid Mac computer no less!) for $499. (mouse, keyboard and a cheap monitor for about $200 more - a grand total of $699) That sure is a killer deal for anyone on a tight budget. It's amazing! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 12th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#28
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	On the way, Charles! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 10:49 AM	#29
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'd buy the bigger Mac mini for $599 and find a cheap LCD that supports HD resolutions (maybe $300 there). I am starting to think more and more that Apple has something up their sleeve for when the Z1 comes out--"Full support for 720p and 1080i with special emphasis on the Sony Z1," is what I think Jobs will say. "You can't get that on Express HD or iMovie HD." Or maybe not. <g> heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 10:55 AM	#30
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I'm looking forward to see what Panasonic comes out with in the next year. Things are moving incredibly fast. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com