HELP! Correct pulldown removal at DVinfo.net

John Nouel · September 3rd, 2009, 08:37 PM

I have a Sony FX1000 with 24pscan

Which is the currect pulldown pattern on Cinema Tools?

Field 1 Only?
Field 2 Only?
Field 1 Field 2
Field 2 Field 1?

And there the styles?
AB
AA
BB

etc...

I'm really lost in this step and I hope someone can point in the right direction. Thank you very much in advance.

Christopher Drews · September 3rd, 2009, 11:02 PM

This is determined on whether you shot this 24p or 24pA (style 1 or style 2).
The best way of determining pulldown is having After Effects guess it via the interpret footage command. If you don't have AE, simply export a short segment of your clip and run every possible combination. Start with how I have it in this screenshot then move to style 2 after you've tried these five...

-C

John Nouel · September 4th, 2009, 10:24 AM

I did the Guess Pulldown with After Effects, the guess is:

WSSWW

Excuse my ignorance, how that translate to the Cinema Tools workflow? Which options should I choose in Style 1

Christopher Drews · September 4th, 2009, 12:30 PM

Not ignorance- this is pretty advanced stuff.

What I do is number each pulldown. So, without looking, your number from AE will reflect in CT. So, again, AE will tell you which style (24p or 24pA vs Style 1 or Style 2). Just count from Top to Bottom - they are just different values for the same interpretation.
I don't have AE on this system so I can't number them for you... But stick to top to bottom.

-C

Tim Dashwood · September 4th, 2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Nouel

I did the Guess Pulldown with After Effects, the guess is:

WSSWW

Excuse my ignorance, how that translate to the Cinema Tools workflow? Which options should I choose in Style 1

WSSWW should translate to 2:3 pulldown (style 1) starting on BB.

My understanding of AE's pulldown terminology is that the "W" represents whole frames that contain two identical fields and "S" represents frames that are split with fields from different source frames.

So in the 2:3:2:3 pattern you would have
WWSSW if it started on AA
WSSWW if it started on BB
SSWWW if it started on BC
SWWWS if it started on CD
WWWSS if it started on DD

Think of after effects as only showing you the completed frames instead of the fields. It is easier to visualize if you write out the pattern of fields as AABBB (first 2:3) CCDDD (second set of 2:3), then it loops. So in frames it becomes AA BB BC CD DD and then it starts over.

The capture mode should be Field 2 - Field 1 for DV and Field 1 - Field 2 for everything else.

John Nouel · September 5th, 2009, 09:16 PM

That was really helpfull, thank you very much

Greg Quinn · September 7th, 2009, 01:36 PM

FYI, compressor can remove pulldown automatically without having to set the cadence.

Christopher Drews · September 8th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

FYI, compressor can remove pulldown automatically without having to set the cadence.

Not to start a method flame but I get very different results from using cinema tools over compressor for removing pulldown. Additionally, others besides me noticed softening and frame duplication near the head of the clip, specifically around cadence breaks. Compressor also requires you to re-render whereas CT doesn't touch the codec. This opens the door to more user error.

IMHO, AE or CT is the only reliable way to do this on OS X. Compressor's frame controls are "too good to be true" in terms of quality vs ease.

-C

Greg Quinn · September 9th, 2009, 06:43 AM

Christopher; I'll also add that re-sizing via compressor at this time (version 3.5) also introduces blocky artifacting as reported in other forums. On my most recent project, I had 130 M2T files to bring into FCP; because Cinema Tools doesn't support setting the cadence in batch jobs (I'm using a V1U where the cadence is set to _CD_), it was either Compressor or performing 130 reverse telecine's via CT. The results through compressor have actually been fine (I wrap the M2T as a quicktime via ClipWrap, and then send them through compressor to remove pulldown and convert to ProRes LT).

September 3rd, 2009, 08:37 PM	#1
John Nouel New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caracas, Venezuela Posts: 12	HELP! Correct pulldown removal I have a Sony FX1000 with 24pscan Which is the currect pulldown pattern on Cinema Tools? Field 1 Only? Field 2 Only? Field 1 Field 2 Field 2 Field 1? And there the styles? AB AA BB etc... I'm really lost in this step and I hope someone can point in the right direction. Thank you very much in advance.

September 3rd, 2009, 11:02 PM	#2
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	This is determined on whether you shot this 24p or 24pA (style 1 or style 2). The best way of determining pulldown is having After Effects guess it via the interpret footage command. If you don't have AE, simply export a short segment of your clip and run every possible combination. Start with how I have it in this screenshot then move to style 2 after you've tried these five... -C Attached Images

September 4th, 2009, 10:24 AM	#3
John Nouel New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caracas, Venezuela Posts: 12	Correct! I did the Guess Pulldown with After Effects, the guess is: WSSWW Excuse my ignorance, how that translate to the Cinema Tools workflow? Which options should I choose in Style 1

September 5th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#6
John Nouel New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caracas, Venezuela Posts: 12	Thanks That was really helpfull, thank you very much

September 4th, 2009, 12:30 PM	#4
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Not ignorance- this is pretty advanced stuff. What I do is number each pulldown. So, without looking, your number from AE will reflect in CT. So, again, AE will tell you which style (24p or 24pA vs Style 1 or Style 2). Just count from Top to Bottom - they are just different values for the same interpretation. I don't have AE on this system so I can't number them for you... But stick to top to bottom. -C

September 7th, 2009, 01:36 PM	#7
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	FYI, compressor can remove pulldown automatically without having to set the cadence.

September 9th, 2009, 06:43 AM	#9
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	Christopher; I'll also add that re-sizing via compressor at this time (version 3.5) also introduces blocky artifacting as reported in other forums. On my most recent project, I had 130 M2T files to bring into FCP; because Cinema Tools doesn't support setting the cadence in batch jobs (I'm using a V1U where the cadence is set to _CD_), it was either Compressor or performing 130 reverse telecine's via CT. The results through compressor have actually been fine (I wrap the M2T as a quicktime via ClipWrap, and then send them through compressor to remove pulldown and convert to ProRes LT).