Does anybody know how to make my Titles look more film like? at DVinfo.net

Laurence Maher · November 3rd, 2004, 02:36 AM

I'm working in FCP HD and am using LiveType to do my titles. I shot a feature on Panasonic DVX-100A 24p camera and am doing the post now. The titles I would like to look like film titles. Currently, once rendered, they look like they have that "computer video" appearance, which in my opinion gives a cheap-o look to the film. How do I get rid of that?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

Shane Ross · November 3rd, 2004, 01:55 PM

Create them in another application, such as After Effects.

Leon Ortiz-Gil · November 3rd, 2004, 02:05 PM

What you see on your computer monitor may not be what your going to see on a regular ntsc monitor. I had the same problem. The titles looked really bad. But when I played it on a Tv Monitor it was fine.

Laurence Maher · November 3rd, 2004, 04:22 PM

I checked them on my Sony Trinitron consumer big screen TV and they looked like ass. Well, looked good, but looked like video. Why would After FX do a better job. Is it a higher quality program for titling? I thought LiveType was pro level?

Shane Ross · November 3rd, 2004, 04:29 PM

AE is a high end compositing software package. It does a great job with titles. Livetype pales in comparison, for it only does one thing (titles). Livetype is a semi-pro to pro app, but it is designed for video, this the video look.

AE does a much better job with titles, and is used for feature films. But the titling you usually see on features is very high end with huge size image outputs (2K resolution).

Laurence Maher · November 5th, 2004, 08:13 AM

Does After FX do 2k resolution? If not, what for mac does?

Graeme Nattress · November 5th, 2004, 10:12 AM

Make sure that your titles are frame based rather than field bases, and perhaps soften them a bit with a blur, or layer a blurred version of themselves on top of themselves with a blending mode like screen or overlay, and if they're over video, drop the transparency a bit.

Are you editing on a 29.97 fps or a 23.98fps timeline?/

Graeme

Shane Ross · November 5th, 2004, 11:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Does After FX do 2k resolution? If not, what for mac does? -->>>

After Effect ABSOLUTELY does 2K resolution. It is used for feature work. I know the editor for THE MOTHMAN PROPHECIES made temp transitions and effects on his laptop with AE...and the VFX guys just bumped teh resolution to 2K and adjusted the effects slightly.

Graeme Nattress · November 5th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Also, I'd do your titles in an uncompressed codec, or PhotoJPEG100% (no fields), especially if you're going to DVD as it will give better quality than DV.

BTW, what has 2k processing got to do with titles on a DV movie, unless it's going to film out, in which case going a 1920x1080 HD route would be much more cost effective than 2k anway.

Graeme

Laurence Maher · November 16th, 2004, 03:20 AM

I'm was editing 29.97. But now I'm going to edit 23.98. I'm not sure how you'd dd our titles in an uncompressed codec and still put it into a 23.98 timeline? Advice?

Thanks.

Laurence Maher · November 16th, 2004, 08:57 PM

Wow . . .

Just tried the same titles created by LiveType in a 23.98 timeline and this . . . really looks . . . bad.

Even worse than before. Looks jittery, very un-fluid movement. Do I have to do this in a true 24p to make it look good or what? (as opposed to 23.98?)

Responses please.

Thanks!

Ignacio Rodriguez · November 17th, 2004, 08:48 AM

There seems to be a relationship between frame rate and scrolling speed that needs to be worked out. I don't know the formula, but there will be a speed that will match the frame-rate field for field or line by line (or multiples of) and then it will look much better. Then, as Graeme mentioned, if you blur it a bit it will look less video-ish. It will also help if you don't use 100% white.

Laurence Maher · November 22nd, 2004, 08:53 PM

Just checked it out at 23.98 on dvd burn on tv and thee quality of the lettering itself looks pretty good, but the titles are moving and that movement looks choppy, not smooth. That's probably due to the movement effects done in FCP, I'd imagine. I also assume this is like scrolling speed and I'll need to do some tests with different speeds.

Any ideas?

Mike Butler · November 23rd, 2004, 11:08 AM

I have a favorite program for titling...
Photoshop!

I design the titles exactly as I want them to look, including colored gradient backgrounds etc. When I import the PSD file into FCP, each layer becomes a track, and everything can be animated with motion control using keyframes.

I don't know how "filmic" it looks, never having gone out to film with these projects, but it sure is much more appealing than the clunky look of doing it natively.

Ignacio Rodriguez · November 23rd, 2004, 01:05 PM

Good idea to use Photoshop, you will be taking advantage of the program's anti-aliased text rendering!

November 3rd, 2004, 02:36 AM	#1
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Does anybody know how to make my Titles look more film like? I'm working in FCP HD and am using LiveType to do my titles. I shot a feature on Panasonic DVX-100A 24p camera and am doing the post now. The titles I would like to look like film titles. Currently, once rendered, they look like they have that "computer video" appearance, which in my opinion gives a cheap-o look to the film. How do I get rid of that? Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

November 5th, 2004, 10:12 AM	#7
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Make sure that your titles are frame based rather than field bases, and perhaps soften them a bit with a blur, or layer a blurred version of themselves on top of themselves with a blending mode like screen or overlay, and if they're over video, drop the transparency a bit. Are you editing on a 29.97 fps or a 23.98fps timeline?/ Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

November 5th, 2004, 02:38 PM	#9
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Also, I'd do your titles in an uncompressed codec, or PhotoJPEG100% (no fields), especially if you're going to DVD as it will give better quality than DV. BTW, what has 2k processing got to do with titles on a DV movie, unless it's going to film out, in which case going a 1920x1080 HD route would be much more cost effective than 2k anway. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

November 17th, 2004, 08:48 AM	#12
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	There seems to be a relationship between frame rate and scrolling speed that needs to be worked out. I don't know the formula, but there will be a speed that will match the frame-rate field for field or line by line (or multiples of) and then it will look much better. Then, as Graeme mentioned, if you blur it a bit it will look less video-ish. It will also help if you don't use 100% white. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

November 23rd, 2004, 11:08 AM	#14
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	I have a favorite program for titling... Photoshop! I design the titles exactly as I want them to look, including colored gradient backgrounds etc. When I import the PSD file into FCP, each layer becomes a track, and everything can be animated with motion control using keyframes. I don't know how "filmic" it looks, never having gone out to film with these projects, but it sure is much more appealing than the clunky look of doing it natively. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

November 3rd, 2004, 01:55 PM	#2
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Create them in another application, such as After Effects.

November 3rd, 2004, 02:05 PM	#3
Leon Ortiz-Gil New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 11	What you see on your computer monitor may not be what your going to see on a regular ntsc monitor. I had the same problem. The titles looked really bad. But when I played it on a Tv Monitor it was fine.

November 3rd, 2004, 04:22 PM	#4
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	I checked them on my Sony Trinitron consumer big screen TV and they looked like ass. Well, looked good, but looked like video. Why would After FX do a better job. Is it a higher quality program for titling? I thought LiveType was pro level?

November 3rd, 2004, 04:29 PM	#5
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	AE is a high end compositing software package. It does a great job with titles. Livetype pales in comparison, for it only does one thing (titles). Livetype is a semi-pro to pro app, but it is designed for video, this the video look. AE does a much better job with titles, and is used for feature films. But the titling you usually see on features is very high end with huge size image outputs (2K resolution).

November 5th, 2004, 08:13 AM	#6
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Does After FX do 2k resolution? If not, what for mac does?

November 5th, 2004, 11:42 AM	#8
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Does After FX do 2k resolution? If not, what for mac does? -->>> After Effect ABSOLUTELY does 2K resolution. It is used for feature work. I know the editor for THE MOTHMAN PROPHECIES made temp transitions and effects on his laptop with AE...and the VFX guys just bumped teh resolution to 2K and adjusted the effects slightly.

November 16th, 2004, 03:20 AM	#10
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	I'm was editing 29.97. But now I'm going to edit 23.98. I'm not sure how you'd dd our titles in an uncompressed codec and still put it into a 23.98 timeline? Advice? Thanks.

November 16th, 2004, 08:57 PM	#11
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Wow . . . Just tried the same titles created by LiveType in a 23.98 timeline and this . . . really looks . . . bad. Even worse than before. Looks jittery, very un-fluid movement. Do I have to do this in a true 24p to make it look good or what? (as opposed to 23.98?) Responses please. Thanks!

November 22nd, 2004, 08:53 PM	#13
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Just checked it out at 23.98 on dvd burn on tv and thee quality of the lettering itself looks pretty good, but the titles are moving and that movement looks choppy, not smooth. That's probably due to the movement effects done in FCP, I'd imagine. I also assume this is like scrolling speed and I'll need to do some tests with different speeds. Any ideas?

November 23rd, 2004, 01:05 PM	#15
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Good idea to use Photoshop, you will be taking advantage of the program's anti-aliased text rendering! __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.