safe data transfers...

Boyd Ostroff · October 10th, 2004, 01:32 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Meek : I cannot imagine that I am the only one with this problem but I am getting that feeling... -->>>

It sounds like your basic problem is that you should not have partitioned the internal drive. Most people just use the computer as it ships without multiple partitions and my experience is that this is best. But it's probably a lesson which must be learned the hard way. In my case, I got it out of the way some time ago in my experience with Unix/Linux servers as well as Macs. You inevitably end up with one partition that fills up while others have wasted space. The end result is inefficient use of the overall disk space. Now with today's larger disks this might be less of a problem, but I simply swore off multiple partitions on the same physical drive (except as mandated by the OS for swap disks, etc) and have not regretted it.

I know this stuff gets expensive, but I assume you also place some value on your time and data integrity as well? You don't need to get a particularly fancy/big/fast drive to backup your internal disk. Something like this would do the trick. I've had one of these for over a year and only use it for backup of my internal drive, although I imagine it's fast enough to edit video. If you shop around you can probably find even cheaper ones... take a field trip to Best Buy.

Frank Meek · October 10th, 2004, 01:59 PM

Boyd,
You are correct and I admit falling for the hype given me by (as I mentioned in other posts) a non-video tech person, one who knows the unix underpinnings of the OS X system. His recommendation, while knowing little of the massive video storage needs (and was unbelieving when I first showed him these storages rates) was to protect the media and program files from what he perceived to be potential system failures. I have never experienced such failures and I consider this platform (despite some arrogant prejudice against Powerbooks as a reliable tool) to be solid and reliable. I have done thirty minute broadcast programming on it with only minor and (ultimately) insignificant sorts of problems, lost file links being one. But, these were probably user error, not the fault of the tool.
I certainly would have been better off to leave the internal disk alone...but that is not what current reality is...and I am attempting to correct these errors of judgment. I am discovering, to this end, the underworld of ghostly, insubstantial and apparently unreliable "fixes." I guess I am wishing for the best, hoping for the least and expecting the worst. Thanks for the link and I will probably go your suggested route.

Mark Sloan · October 11th, 2004, 12:38 PM

Frank,

Just to be clear, there is no voodoo with CCC, it is an incredibly basic tool that simply copies a drive bit by bit basically, so it rarely (I would guess less than 1%) fails. The repartitioning on the fly has a bit more complexity (magic) to it, so there are technically more things that can go wrong. But really, with the programs mentioned you should have no problem reformatting your hard drive (disk utility has a Repair Disk function to check it as well).

The real problem you are going to face is that a lot of your programs (as of OS X) rely on the file path names to find the appropriate files. Technically you should be able to relink everything but as you know that does not always work out.

Good luck!

Frank Meek · November 30th, 2004, 10:56 PM

Hi there folks,
I wanted to update those who, like myself, might benefit from this corner of experience. I had a production break and decided to use the fine advice I received here. Also, I have a question for FCP 3 gurus who might have a workaround for a problem apparently peculiar to my edition of FCP 3...which is (for those unlucky colleagues who also are stuck with this odd edition),... FCP 3.02f1. It is this "f1" addendum which seems the issue when transferring files via the very cool "Carbon Copy Cloner," mentioned by Jeff and others in this thread.
I used that to move all of my files, apps and etc. to my 80G LaCie backup drive, purchased specifically for this on the recommendation of Boyd Ostroff. While he did not suggest this LaCie item, he was adamant about the benefits of a dedicated backup drive and its regular use.
Indeed, everything was moved by this highly intuitive utility and all looked good. Everything worked from the backup drive and I felt that I was ready to re-partition my G4 drive. I did so without iPartition primarily because my local computer whiz kid felt that there might be issues in the way this utility dealt with the unix underlayment in the apple world.
We erased the hard drive and I moved those files and apps I felt I needed back again, (I left the iLife packages as I wished to re-install these as some had serious issues.
But, all was not to be perfect as I found when I attempted to launch FCP in its new, remodeled home. The message which came up was "FCP requires a System ID file which is either missing or invalid". Apparently, not everything was moved by CCC!
I called Apple support...and then FCP support and they couldn't have been more helpful (and distressing)...this is, they indicated, unique to the aforementioned "f1" appended FCP 3.02. Also, this was the reason I was unable, some time ago when I attempted to do so, NOT to be able to upgrade to 3.04. This "f1" very special edition also prevents this. I found all of this in the tech sheet section in FCP.
I suppose that I didn't feel I was missing anything as my system worked flawlessly for years. But, as might be expected, I am certainly now missing FCP, my settings and preferences, and valuable time as I await Apple to send me a disk of 3.04 for installation. And, I have no idea whether my projects will be found or not. OUCH!
Any ideas for finding the System ID file? A workaround? Anything?

Mark Sloan · December 1st, 2004, 12:16 AM

Here is probably where your problem happened "We erased the hard drive and I moved those files and apps I felt I needed back again"

When you moved the files back over you relied on the finder to copy everything over. This does not copy hidden files or restore any hidden preference files in the System Library folder. This ID or whatever could have been stored anywhere, and is probably somewhere on your CCC'd drive.

To make the CCC work, you have to use the tool to take your clone and copy it back over to the new disk. By selectively copying just portions you are bound to miss stuff.

Can't you simply reinstall from your original discs? What happened to them? What does the f1 mean? With your cloned drive can't you just boot off it and get work done? I'm not sure how you set it up, so I don't know if this is possible...

Frank Meek · December 1st, 2004, 01:31 AM

Mark
Yes, all the files were CCC'd back...except the iLife package, which should have nothing whatever to do with FCP. I didn't use the finder to do anything. The files were cloned to the 80G backup and then back again to the newly erased G4 drive.
To the question of what the "f1" means is beyond me and apparently beyond the tech folks at Apple...they, to their sales credit, were as interested in touting the upgrade to FCP4.5 as giving me all the answers, many of which went unanswered, the "f1" among them. The technical reports are in the support pages if you're interested...if I had the time, I would put them here, but I do not. I suspect that the "f1" was a very early version with some known bugs...one of which is the missing file ID even when attempting to upgrade to 3.4, the last before the new iteration. As I said, the tech papers admitted this and the folks at Apple said as much when they sent me to the tech paper section of the website.
And, indeed, I have the original disk, yet this version (with "f1") has some issues, while unbeknownst to me during the past years. The 3.4 version that they're sending me is the preferred alternative here, even though I have never used this version.
Let me say that the FCP staff knew when I mentioned my version that there was a problem or two...no hesitation about getting my address to send me the newer install disk. That is what I now await.
And, to the booting from the backup...I checked this before I erased and all was good...I even did work on my last project in this mode...however, as soon as I erased the G4 drive I had the missing file ID message...on both drives...go figure. But, not to beat a dead horse, the Apple guys didn't even break stride when I gave them the version info and registration number...but they declined to give details...nobody wants to talk about mistakes and bugs, let alone fixes to an "unsupported version."

Mark Sloan · December 1st, 2004, 12:27 PM

Hm. I guess when you recreated your OS it wiped the ID number you were looking for. Sorry it hasn't gone smoothly!

November 30th, 2004, 10:56 PM	#19
Frank Meek Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jackson, WY/Steamboat CO Posts: 43	data transfers Hi there folks, I wanted to update those who, like myself, might benefit from this corner of experience. I had a production break and decided to use the fine advice I received here. Also, I have a question for FCP 3 gurus who might have a workaround for a problem apparently peculiar to my edition of FCP 3...which is (for those unlucky colleagues who also are stuck with this odd edition),... FCP 3.02f1. It is this "f1" addendum which seems the issue when transferring files via the very cool "Carbon Copy Cloner," mentioned by Jeff and others in this thread. I used that to move all of my files, apps and etc. to my 80G LaCie backup drive, purchased specifically for this on the recommendation of Boyd Ostroff. While he did not suggest this LaCie item, he was adamant about the benefits of a dedicated backup drive and its regular use. Indeed, everything was moved by this highly intuitive utility and all looked good. Everything worked from the backup drive and I felt that I was ready to re-partition my G4 drive. I did so without iPartition primarily because my local computer whiz kid felt that there might be issues in the way this utility dealt with the unix underlayment in the apple world. We erased the hard drive and I moved those files and apps I felt I needed back again, (I left the iLife packages as I wished to re-install these as some had serious issues. But, all was not to be perfect as I found when I attempted to launch FCP in its new, remodeled home. The message which came up was "FCP requires a System ID file which is either missing or invalid". Apparently, not everything was moved by CCC! I called Apple support...and then FCP support and they couldn't have been more helpful (and distressing)...this is, they indicated, unique to the aforementioned "f1" appended FCP 3.02. Also, this was the reason I was unable, some time ago when I attempted to do so, NOT to be able to upgrade to 3.04. This "f1" very special edition also prevents this. I found all of this in the tech sheet section in FCP. I suppose that I didn't feel I was missing anything as my system worked flawlessly for years. But, as might be expected, I am certainly now missing FCP, my settings and preferences, and valuable time as I await Apple to send me a disk of 3.04 for installation. And, I have no idea whether my projects will be found or not. OUCH! Any ideas for finding the System ID file? A workaround? Anything?

October 10th, 2004, 01:32 PM	#16
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Meek : I cannot imagine that I am the only one with this problem but I am getting that feeling... -->>> It sounds like your basic problem is that you should not have partitioned the internal drive. Most people just use the computer as it ships without multiple partitions and my experience is that this is best. But it's probably a lesson which must be learned the hard way. In my case, I got it out of the way some time ago in my experience with Unix/Linux servers as well as Macs. You inevitably end up with one partition that fills up while others have wasted space. The end result is inefficient use of the overall disk space. Now with today's larger disks this might be less of a problem, but I simply swore off multiple partitions on the same physical drive (except as mandated by the OS for swap disks, etc) and have not regretted it. I know this stuff gets expensive, but I assume you also place some value on your time and data integrity as well? You don't need to get a particularly fancy/big/fast drive to backup your internal disk. Something like this would do the trick. I've had one of these for over a year and only use it for backup of my internal drive, although I imagine it's fast enough to edit video. If you shop around you can probably find even cheaper ones... take a field trip to Best Buy.

October 10th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#17
Frank Meek Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jackson, WY/Steamboat CO Posts: 43	Boyd, You are correct and I admit falling for the hype given me by (as I mentioned in other posts) a non-video tech person, one who knows the unix underpinnings of the OS X system. His recommendation, while knowing little of the massive video storage needs (and was unbelieving when I first showed him these storages rates) was to protect the media and program files from what he perceived to be potential system failures. I have never experienced such failures and I consider this platform (despite some arrogant prejudice against Powerbooks as a reliable tool) to be solid and reliable. I have done thirty minute broadcast programming on it with only minor and (ultimately) insignificant sorts of problems, lost file links being one. But, these were probably user error, not the fault of the tool. I certainly would have been better off to leave the internal disk alone...but that is not what current reality is...and I am attempting to correct these errors of judgment. I am discovering, to this end, the underworld of ghostly, insubstantial and apparently unreliable "fixes." I guess I am wishing for the best, hoping for the least and expecting the worst. Thanks for the link and I will probably go your suggested route.

October 11th, 2004, 12:38 PM	#18
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	Frank, Just to be clear, there is no voodoo with CCC, it is an incredibly basic tool that simply copies a drive bit by bit basically, so it rarely (I would guess less than 1%) fails. The repartitioning on the fly has a bit more complexity (magic) to it, so there are technically more things that can go wrong. But really, with the programs mentioned you should have no problem reformatting your hard drive (disk utility has a Repair Disk function to check it as well). The real problem you are going to face is that a lot of your programs (as of OS X) rely on the file path names to find the appropriate files. Technically you should be able to relink everything but as you know that does not always work out. Good luck!

December 1st, 2004, 12:16 AM	#20
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	Here is probably where your problem happened "We erased the hard drive and I moved those files and apps I felt I needed back again" When you moved the files back over you relied on the finder to copy everything over. This does not copy hidden files or restore any hidden preference files in the System Library folder. This ID or whatever could have been stored anywhere, and is probably somewhere on your CCC'd drive. To make the CCC work, you have to use the tool to take your clone and copy it back over to the new disk. By selectively copying just portions you are bound to miss stuff. Can't you simply reinstall from your original discs? What happened to them? What does the f1 mean? With your cloned drive can't you just boot off it and get work done? I'm not sure how you set it up, so I don't know if this is possible...

December 1st, 2004, 01:31 AM	#21
Frank Meek Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jackson, WY/Steamboat CO Posts: 43	Mark Yes, all the files were CCC'd back...except the iLife package, which should have nothing whatever to do with FCP. I didn't use the finder to do anything. The files were cloned to the 80G backup and then back again to the newly erased G4 drive. To the question of what the "f1" means is beyond me and apparently beyond the tech folks at Apple...they, to their sales credit, were as interested in touting the upgrade to FCP4.5 as giving me all the answers, many of which went unanswered, the "f1" among them. The technical reports are in the support pages if you're interested...if I had the time, I would put them here, but I do not. I suspect that the "f1" was a very early version with some known bugs...one of which is the missing file ID even when attempting to upgrade to 3.4, the last before the new iteration. As I said, the tech papers admitted this and the folks at Apple said as much when they sent me to the tech paper section of the website. And, indeed, I have the original disk, yet this version (with "f1") has some issues, while unbeknownst to me during the past years. The 3.4 version that they're sending me is the preferred alternative here, even though I have never used this version. Let me say that the FCP staff knew when I mentioned my version that there was a problem or two...no hesitation about getting my address to send me the newer install disk. That is what I now await. And, to the booting from the backup...I checked this before I erased and all was good...I even did work on my last project in this mode...however, as soon as I erased the G4 drive I had the missing file ID message...on both drives...go figure. But, not to beat a dead horse, the Apple guys didn't even break stride when I gave them the version info and registration number...but they declined to give details...nobody wants to talk about mistakes and bugs, let alone fixes to an "unsupported version."

December 1st, 2004, 12:27 PM	#22
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	Hm. I guess when you recreated your OS it wiped the ID number you were looking for. Sorry it hasn't gone smoothly!