SDX900 converted to miniDV... now what? at DVinfo.net

Nelson Brann · July 22nd, 2004, 05:48 PM

Film shot using an AJSDX-900 - 24p - 16:9

Tapes have been transferred to miniDV

Logging and Capturing to FCP 4.5

It seems that this is the critical setup point... Won't my EDL be wrong if I don't adjust my sequence settings to something other than the default? Do I have to remove pulldown now or later? Do I need to set the aspect ratio differently?

Ken Tanaka · July 22nd, 2004, 08:34 PM

Hello Nelson,
You shot the original footage in DVCPro50, correct? Why did you transfer the footage down to miniDV? How did you perform the transfer?

Nelson Brann · July 22nd, 2004, 08:48 PM

Hi Ken-

Correct - DVCPro50.

I didn't, the DP did. I am guessing because he knew I didn't have a deck that would accomodate DVCPro OR to have a smaller file size to perform an offline edit?

I just got a message saying that they are exact duplicates of the masters.

Ken Tanaka · July 23rd, 2004, 12:59 AM

Unfortunately, that message was not entirely accurate. I believe that DVCPro50 has a wider color space than plain DV due to its different compression characteristics. So at this point you've lost much of the advantage that that beautiful SDX900 camera provided to you. In effect, you now basically have DVX100 footage...which isn't bad.

You may be able to just capture the footage as regular 16:9 24P. Go ahead and give it a try. That's basically how you handle DVX100 24P basic footage. If it looks funky, you'll probably have to use the Cinema Tools features of FCP to get the advanced pull-down. I think you'll just have to experiment, as I don't know how the footage was actually transcribed to DV.

It's too bad you couldn't have just rented a DVCPro50-compatible deck, as FCP 4 could have handled that.

Glenn Chan · July 23rd, 2004, 08:12 AM

If you want to do an online edit with the higher quality masters, then you will need cloned timecode or a timecode window burn. With cloned timecode you just bring your FCP project file over to the online suite and re-capture. With a timecode window burn you have to manually enter in numbers.

2a- Are you trying to do an online edit later on, or do you just want to edit in DV and master to a DV format?
2b- What's your target format?

3- In real world viewing situations there may not be much difference between DVCPro50 and DV. This depends highly on your target format. Artifacts from DV compression can be very difficult to notice (this depends on your footage and your audience). Also, the 4:2:2 versus 4:1:1 color space issue may also be very difficult to notice if your audience is not sitting right up to their TV.

Also, your audience probably isn't looking for DV artifacts and 4:2:2 versus 4:1:1. They'd have to know what to look for. And even if they do, you have a problem if they're looking for artifacts (they must be bored).

Nelson Brann · July 23rd, 2004, 09:41 AM

Glenn and Ken Thank you so much for your responses! Glenn I thind you are on the same track as the DP and Producer (i.e. a low res offline edit then high res online). The target format has been changing, but it looks like it is in fact going to film eventually (the original Producer was aiming for high def).

So how do I do a cloned timecode, offline edit in FCP?

I am capturing the footage using log and capture and a Sony DCR-TRV30. The footage plays at 29.97 (30fps?). SO is FCP introducing an automatic pulldown? Do I edit in this format and then convert it for the offline edit or do I remove the pulldown, edit in 24 (23.98?) and use that project file for the online? I am SO confused!!

Glenn Chan · July 23rd, 2004, 10:45 AM

I haven't done what you want to do before so I can only tell you what theretically should happen:

Hopefully your DVCPro masters do not have timecode breaks on them. If they do, then you might want to make a copy of the tape without timecode breaks.

DVCPro tapes are dubbed to mini-DV/DVCAM with cloned timecode. I think mini-DV is capable of cloned timecode.

In Final Cut, you capture and edit 24p. As someone else mentioned, you may need Cinema Tools to do the pulldown to 24p correctly.

When you edit, you would want a NTSC monitor that can do 16:9. Otherwise you'd have to waste time letterboxing or look at everything squished.

WHen you're done editing, you take your FCP project file to the online suite. They should be able to recapture off your masters (the timecode needs to match up).

If the system is an Avid system, you would want Automatic Duck to convert your project. Effects and transitions may be lost in translation.

Once you've done editing at the online suite, you'd want to master to the right format (whatever your film transfer house wants). You could keep a lossless version of your movie kicking around on a hard drive as that would be the highest quality master you can get and you don't need a special deck.

July 22nd, 2004, 05:48 PM	#1
Nelson Brann Tourist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Redondo Beach, California Posts: 3	SDX900 converted to miniDV... now what? Film shot using an AJSDX-900 - 24p - 16:9 Tapes have been transferred to miniDV Logging and Capturing to FCP 4.5 It seems that this is the critical setup point... Won't my EDL be wrong if I don't adjust my sequence settings to something other than the default? Do I have to remove pulldown now or later? Do I need to set the aspect ratio differently?

July 22nd, 2004, 08:34 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hello Nelson, You shot the original footage in DVCPro50, correct? Why did you transfer the footage down to miniDV? How did you perform the transfer? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 23rd, 2004, 12:59 AM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Unfortunately, that message was not entirely accurate. I believe that DVCPro50 has a wider color space than plain DV due to its different compression characteristics. So at this point you've lost much of the advantage that that beautiful SDX900 camera provided to you. In effect, you now basically have DVX100 footage...which isn't bad. You may be able to just capture the footage as regular 16:9 24P. Go ahead and give it a try. That's basically how you handle DVX100 24P basic footage. If it looks funky, you'll probably have to use the Cinema Tools features of FCP to get the advanced pull-down. I think you'll just have to experiment, as I don't know how the footage was actually transcribed to DV. It's too bad you couldn't have just rented a DVCPro50-compatible deck, as FCP 4 could have handled that. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 22nd, 2004, 08:48 PM	#3
Nelson Brann Tourist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Redondo Beach, California Posts: 3	Hi Ken- Correct - DVCPro50. I didn't, the DP did. I am guessing because he knew I didn't have a deck that would accomodate DVCPro OR to have a smaller file size to perform an offline edit? I just got a message saying that they are exact duplicates of the masters.

July 23rd, 2004, 08:12 AM	#5
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	If you want to do an online edit with the higher quality masters, then you will need cloned timecode or a timecode window burn. With cloned timecode you just bring your FCP project file over to the online suite and re-capture. With a timecode window burn you have to manually enter in numbers. 2a- Are you trying to do an online edit later on, or do you just want to edit in DV and master to a DV format? 2b- What's your target format? 3- In real world viewing situations there may not be much difference between DVCPro50 and DV. This depends highly on your target format. Artifacts from DV compression can be very difficult to notice (this depends on your footage and your audience). Also, the 4:2:2 versus 4:1:1 color space issue may also be very difficult to notice if your audience is not sitting right up to their TV. Also, your audience probably isn't looking for DV artifacts and 4:2:2 versus 4:1:1. They'd have to know what to look for. And even if they do, you have a problem if they're looking for artifacts (they must be bored).

July 23rd, 2004, 09:41 AM	#6
Nelson Brann Tourist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Redondo Beach, California Posts: 3	Glenn and Ken Thank you so much for your responses! Glenn I thind you are on the same track as the DP and Producer (i.e. a low res offline edit then high res online). The target format has been changing, but it looks like it is in fact going to film eventually (the original Producer was aiming for high def). So how do I do a cloned timecode, offline edit in FCP? I am capturing the footage using log and capture and a Sony DCR-TRV30. The footage plays at 29.97 (30fps?). SO is FCP introducing an automatic pulldown? Do I edit in this format and then convert it for the offline edit or do I remove the pulldown, edit in 24 (23.98?) and use that project file for the online? I am SO confused!!

July 23rd, 2004, 10:45 AM	#7
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I haven't done what you want to do before so I can only tell you what theretically should happen: Hopefully your DVCPro masters do not have timecode breaks on them. If they do, then you might want to make a copy of the tape without timecode breaks. DVCPro tapes are dubbed to mini-DV/DVCAM with cloned timecode. I think mini-DV is capable of cloned timecode. In Final Cut, you capture and edit 24p. As someone else mentioned, you may need Cinema Tools to do the pulldown to 24p correctly. When you edit, you would want a NTSC monitor that can do 16:9. Otherwise you'd have to waste time letterboxing or look at everything squished. WHen you're done editing, you take your FCP project file to the online suite. They should be able to recapture off your masters (the timecode needs to match up). If the system is an Avid system, you would want Automatic Duck to convert your project. Effects and transitions may be lost in translation. Once you've done editing at the online suite, you'd want to master to the right format (whatever your film transfer house wants). You could keep a lossless version of your movie kicking around on a hard drive as that would be the highest quality master you can get and you don't need a special deck.