Question for Paul Moog and/or anyone regarding G5 system! at DVinfo.net

Christopher C. Murphy · May 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Hi all, I need help because I'm about to blow $6,000 if I get this wrong!!!

I want to buy a G5 dual 2ghz system that will be the bare essentials for editing in FCP footage from the HD10u. I've read all the related posts and it looks like a G5 dual 2ghz machine with 1gig RAM, and the standard on-board 160 gig HD will work? I'm trying to spec out a machine that will allow me to edit in real time with minimal efforts. I read a lot about the new DVCPRO codec that comes with FCP HD, and its been mentioned that it works for realtime editing with a dual G5.

I just want to make sure I buy the right one. Has anyone checked out the http://www.wiebetech.com firewire 800 drives? I read online elsewhere that they were "HD" 8bit and 10bit real time editable drives. I'm trying to figure out what external firewire drive would work instead of having one in the machine other than the default shipped drive.

Thanks to anyone who can help!!

Murph

Christopher C. Murphy · May 14th, 2004, 10:55 AM

Ok, no one replied. :(

I am leaving to pickup a G5 2ghz, 1 gig Ram system! :)

I'll be posting results when I try and edit HDV on it.

Murph

Frederic Lumiere · May 14th, 2004, 11:25 AM

Christopher,

First I would put as many internal SATA drives as you can. They're cheaper and with the G5 new serial connection you can take advantage of larger drives.

Secondly, the Lacie 800 Firewire drives are fine for us.

We have been experiencing issues using external drives and monitoring DV on an NTSC monitor via the HD10U. Only on footage located on an external firewire drive. This issue is consistent across 3 machines so I am convinced it is a camera problem. The issue by the way is spotty pops on the audio and the video.

Anyone else experience this?

Christopher C. Murphy · May 14th, 2004, 02:05 PM

Hi Frederic,

I just got the new system...I'm going to setup now! Thank you for the advice and I'm going to be using the 1.0 version of your software to check everything out. I just need to make another trip to buy FCP again for my new machine. The 23 inch screen is going to rock!

Murph

Josh Brusin · May 14th, 2004, 03:15 PM

let me know what drive config you're using... I'll be doing what you're doing in a month or two...
Thanks

Christopher C. Murphy · May 14th, 2004, 05:01 PM

Josh, I'll definately let you know. I just made a trip back to the Apple store for the 5.1 Kipslich speaker package....what the hell right??! If you're going to spend $6,000...what's another $300?!

Murph

Paul Mogg · May 15th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Sorry I didn't see your post until now Christopher. The setup I use is a G5 dual 2 ghz with 2.5 gb RAM.
I have 2 *250gb SATA drives mounted internally (the G5 can only take 2 inside as standard), and I have 2*250Gb SATA drives mounted externally in an old dual firewire case. The two external ones are only using the power (and fan) from the firewire case, the SATA data connection to these is via a SERITEK/1s2 SATA interface card ( ($70) from www.firmtek.com )
All four SATA drives (model # Maxtor 6Y250M0 - $209 each online) are striped as a software RAID. This gives you 120-150 MB/sec constant throughput, enough to edit 4 streams of DVCPRO HD 720p and have realtime effects with full resolution HD monitoring on the cinema display, it will also playback a stream of Uncompressed 10 bit HD, which is handy as I use that as my final output format now.
I boot from an external firewire 400 drive, which has all my apps and system on it. I used a firewire 800 case for a bit but didn't see a lot of difference in speed.
This setup works very well and reliably now, though I did have some issues with a bad drive in the RAID for a while, and also when I changed my exterrnal firewire 400 and 800 drive configuration ( I also have an external 800 drive for backup), OSX seemed to have a problem with it for a bit.

If you have money to burn, Promax sell a kit that allows mounting 3 more SATA drives internally, but it costs $2000.

I also use an older VGA monitor as a second monitor right now (via the DVI->VGA cable that comes with the G5). When editing DVCPRO HD in FCP you can switch between the two monitors as your principal HD monitor using the Apple-12 key combination, which is handy for critical color correction etc.

I hope this helps.

Paul

Alain Aguilar · May 15th, 2004, 02:31 PM

Christopher,

Good luck with your new system. You must to feel like a little kid with a gigantic toy. Please let us know how it performs down the line. Are you planning to run other apps such as After Effects or 3D animation?

Christopher C. Murphy · May 16th, 2004, 12:28 PM

Thanks to everyone who has posted!

First, get this...I buy this brand new top of the line G5 dual system. I come home and set it up...I'm downloading, installing etc etc. All of a sudden (unknown to me because I'm totally immersed in my G5 world) thunder comes rolling in....lighting came and literally 60 seconds before the power killed TONS of people's computer in my area I turned off the system. My girlfriend saved everything from getting killed because she told me to shut it all down...literally 60 seconds or so more...and bye bye uninsured $6,000 system! (I have a Monster power thing, but apparently tons of people lots appliances in my area over the last 24 hours.)

Anyway, let that be a lesson to all of us...shut down in a lightning storm! (I'm in New Hampshire by the way, so if anyone lives by me...you know what I'm talking about it was bad.)

Ok, I have a question for Paul Moog. When I setup a software RAID (which I see where to do it in my iDisk program) - will it blow away all my current data? I want to setup a RAID either on my new internal 160gig drive or on my Firewire 400 drive.

Any help would be appreciated. I actually dragged the Firewire drive into the RAID area in my iDisk window, but nothing happened. Is something suppose to happen? Yes, I read the Help for this topic...nothing mentioned there!!

Thanks!!!!!!!

Murph

Paul Mogg · May 16th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Yes, if you create a software RAID it will destroy all the data on all drives in the RAID, it re-initializes them. You use "Disk Utility" to create the RAID and just drag whatever disks you want to be in it into the window of the utility, it's very simple to do. The drives you use should be of similar capacity and type, don't try and mix firewire and internal drives for instance, I don't think that would work. If you use different capacity drives, for instance a 160gb and a 250gb drive, the final RAID would be 2*160Gb, so you would lose a bunch of valuable space on the 250gb drives. If you're thinking of editing in the DVCPRO HD format I would recommend using two internal SATA drives in your RAID, you can just use two and get pretty good performance. Then put your apps and system on a firewire drive and boot from that.

All the best,

Jeff Donald · May 16th, 2004, 12:51 PM

Ideally you would want to RAID two identical drives. A RAID configuration such as you're purposing might actually perform some functions slower than a single drive. The RAID setup is in Disk Utility (Your Drive>Applications>Utilities>Disk Utility>click the RAID tab) not iDisk.

Christopher C. Murphy · May 16th, 2004, 02:25 PM

Wait a sec, if I "RAID" my single internal...could I do that?? I have the external Firewire 400 drive available to RAID (200 gigs available) also.

I tried to drag the Firewire and it doesn't do anything...the options are greyed out. I can still drag the drive in and it stays there, but nothing becomes available as an option.

Do I need to reformat the drive, so nothing is on it and free to be "RAIDED" like the lost Ark?? :)

Note: I've already encoded DVCPRO HD files in LumiereHD. These files are imported into Final Cut Pro HD...and playback in real time. I haven't done anything fancy because I want to setup the drives properly before I do anything creative.

Question: I'm encoding DVCPRO HD at "60" frames per second....is that what you guys are using? I tried the 29.97 option and the video looked like crap.

Murph

Paul Mogg · May 16th, 2004, 02:51 PM

You cannot make a RAID from a single drive, the concept is that data is split up and is written to multiple drives simultaneously, making the process of reading and writing very fast.

Josh Brusin · May 16th, 2004, 05:16 PM

for most of my dv edits I use 2 sancubes... 10 drives (not raided but possible) enough space...
I'd wonder if I could work it into an SD/HD solution>>>?

Christopher C. Murphy · May 16th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Ok, so if I partition the Firewire drive that's technically 2 drives? It's not really, but..

I guess I should go buy another Firewire then? Darn, more money...HD is expensive even at the cheapest level.

Murph

May 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#1
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Emergency question for anyone regarding new G5 system! Hi all, I need help because I'm about to blow $6,000 if I get this wrong!!! I want to buy a G5 dual 2ghz system that will be the bare essentials for editing in FCP footage from the HD10u. I've read all the related posts and it looks like a G5 dual 2ghz machine with 1gig RAM, and the standard on-board 160 gig HD will work? I'm trying to spec out a machine that will allow me to edit in real time with minimal efforts. I read a lot about the new DVCPRO codec that comes with FCP HD, and its been mentioned that it works for realtime editing with a dual G5. I just want to make sure I buy the right one. Has anyone checked out the http://www.wiebetech.com firewire 800 drives? I read online elsewhere that they were "HD" 8bit and 10bit real time editable drives. I'm trying to figure out what external firewire drive would work instead of having one in the machine other than the default shipped drive. Thanks to anyone who can help!! Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 14th, 2004, 10:55 AM	#2
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Ahhhh!! Ok, no one replied. :( I am leaving to pickup a G5 2ghz, 1 gig Ram system! :) I'll be posting results when I try and edit HDV on it. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 14th, 2004, 02:05 PM	#4
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Hi Frederic, I just got the new system...I'm going to setup now! Thank you for the advice and I'm going to be using the 1.0 version of your software to check everything out. I just need to make another trip to buy FCP again for my new machine. The 23 inch screen is going to rock! Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 14th, 2004, 05:01 PM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Josh, I'll definately let you know. I just made a trip back to the Apple store for the 5.1 Kipslich speaker package....what the hell right??! If you're going to spend $6,000...what's another $300?! Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 15th, 2004, 02:18 PM	#7
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Sorry I didn't see your post until now Christopher. The setup I use is a G5 dual 2 ghz with 2.5 gb RAM. I have 2 250gb SATA drives mounted internally (the G5 can only take 2 inside as standard), and I have 2250Gb SATA drives mounted externally in an old dual firewire case. The two external ones are only using the power (and fan) from the firewire case, the SATA data connection to these is via a SERITEK/1s2 SATA interface card ( ($70) from www.firmtek.com ) All four SATA drives (model # Maxtor 6Y250M0 - $209 each online) are striped as a software RAID. This gives you 120-150 MB/sec constant throughput, enough to edit 4 streams of DVCPRO HD 720p and have realtime effects with full resolution HD monitoring on the cinema display, it will also playback a stream of Uncompressed 10 bit HD, which is handy as I use that as my final output format now. I boot from an external firewire 400 drive, which has all my apps and system on it. I used a firewire 800 case for a bit but didn't see a lot of difference in speed. This setup works very well and reliably now, though I did have some issues with a bad drive in the RAID for a while, and also when I changed my exterrnal firewire 400 and 800 drive configuration ( I also have an external 800 drive for backup), OSX seemed to have a problem with it for a bit. If you have money to burn, Promax sell a kit that allows mounting 3 more SATA drives internally, but it costs $2000. I also use an older VGA monitor as a second monitor right now (via the DVI->VGA cable that comes with the G5). When editing DVCPRO HD in FCP you can switch between the two monitors as your principal HD monitor using the Apple-12 key combination, which is handy for critical color correction etc. I hope this helps. Paul __________________ Paul

May 14th, 2004, 11:25 AM	#3
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Christopher, First I would put as many internal SATA drives as you can. They're cheaper and with the G5 new serial connection you can take advantage of larger drives. Secondly, the Lacie 800 Firewire drives are fine for us. We have been experiencing issues using external drives and monitoring DV on an NTSC monitor via the HD10U. Only on footage located on an external firewire drive. This issue is consistent across 3 machines so I am convinced it is a camera problem. The issue by the way is spotty pops on the audio and the video. Anyone else experience this?

May 14th, 2004, 03:15 PM	#5
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	let me know what drive config you're using... I'll be doing what you're doing in a month or two... Thanks

May 15th, 2004, 02:31 PM	#8
Alain Aguilar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Bergen Posts: 170	Christopher, Good luck with your new system. You must to feel like a little kid with a gigantic toy. Please let us know how it performs down the line. Are you planning to run other apps such as After Effects or 3D animation? __________________ Alain

May 16th, 2004, 12:28 PM	#9
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Thanks to everyone who has posted! First, get this...I buy this brand new top of the line G5 dual system. I come home and set it up...I'm downloading, installing etc etc. All of a sudden (unknown to me because I'm totally immersed in my G5 world) thunder comes rolling in....lighting came and literally 60 seconds before the power killed TONS of people's computer in my area I turned off the system. My girlfriend saved everything from getting killed because she told me to shut it all down...literally 60 seconds or so more...and bye bye uninsured $6,000 system! (I have a Monster power thing, but apparently tons of people lots appliances in my area over the last 24 hours.) Anyway, let that be a lesson to all of us...shut down in a lightning storm! (I'm in New Hampshire by the way, so if anyone lives by me...you know what I'm talking about it was bad.) Ok, I have a question for Paul Moog. When I setup a software RAID (which I see where to do it in my iDisk program) - will it blow away all my current data? I want to setup a RAID either on my new internal 160gig drive or on my Firewire 400 drive. Any help would be appreciated. I actually dragged the Firewire drive into the RAID area in my iDisk window, but nothing happened. Is something suppose to happen? Yes, I read the Help for this topic...nothing mentioned there!! Thanks!!!!!!! Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 16th, 2004, 12:48 PM	#10
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Yes, if you create a software RAID it will destroy all the data on all drives in the RAID, it re-initializes them. You use "Disk Utility" to create the RAID and just drag whatever disks you want to be in it into the window of the utility, it's very simple to do. The drives you use should be of similar capacity and type, don't try and mix firewire and internal drives for instance, I don't think that would work. If you use different capacity drives, for instance a 160gb and a 250gb drive, the final RAID would be 2*160Gb, so you would lose a bunch of valuable space on the 250gb drives. If you're thinking of editing in the DVCPRO HD format I would recommend using two internal SATA drives in your RAID, you can just use two and get pretty good performance. Then put your apps and system on a firewire drive and boot from that. All the best, __________________ Paul

May 16th, 2004, 12:51 PM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Ideally you would want to RAID two identical drives. A RAID configuration such as you're purposing might actually perform some functions slower than a single drive. The RAID setup is in Disk Utility (Your Drive>Applications>Utilities>Disk Utility>click the RAID tab) not iDisk. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 16th, 2004, 02:25 PM	#12
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Wait a sec, if I "RAID" my single internal...could I do that?? I have the external Firewire 400 drive available to RAID (200 gigs available) also. I tried to drag the Firewire and it doesn't do anything...the options are greyed out. I can still drag the drive in and it stays there, but nothing becomes available as an option. Do I need to reformat the drive, so nothing is on it and free to be "RAIDED" like the lost Ark?? :) Note: I've already encoded DVCPRO HD files in LumiereHD. These files are imported into Final Cut Pro HD...and playback in real time. I haven't done anything fancy because I want to setup the drives properly before I do anything creative. Question: I'm encoding DVCPRO HD at "60" frames per second....is that what you guys are using? I tried the 29.97 option and the video looked like crap. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

May 16th, 2004, 02:51 PM	#13
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	You cannot make a RAID from a single drive, the concept is that data is split up and is written to multiple drives simultaneously, making the process of reading and writing very fast. __________________ Paul

May 16th, 2004, 05:16 PM	#14
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	for most of my dv edits I use 2 sancubes... 10 drives (not raided but possible) enough space... I'd wonder if I could work it into an SD/HD solution>>>?

May 16th, 2004, 05:26 PM	#15
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Ok, so if I partition the Firewire drive that's technically 2 drives? It's not really, but.. I guess I should go buy another Firewire then? Darn, more money...HD is expensive even at the cheapest level. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer