NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2004

Shawn Mielke · March 11th, 2004, 09:50 PM

Are there many FCE users out there who are also utilising DVDSP. Succes? Problems? I ask because I had a fellow recommend strongly to upgrade from FCE to FCP, expressly to work with DVDSP, that I will probably avoid compatibility and workflow issues. Does this make sense to others who know better?
(I am about to get DVDSP, and it will be a professional dvd product type of application). Or is FCE going to be fine?
Thanks very much!

Shawn

Ken Tanaka · March 12th, 2004, 11:14 PM

Apple has posted some photos of the production of the 2004 ceremony's opening montage.

Matt Stahley · March 12th, 2004, 11:29 PM

Sweet Airstream studio. Thanks for the link Ken.

Matt Stahley · March 12th, 2004, 11:47 PM

Seems when I preview and or buid disc in SP 1.5 I get a pumping and breathing effect on audio as well as dropouts and phased sounds. The audio (16bit,48k AIFF) is encoded in APack to Stereo AC3 192kbps - Dianorm set to -31 and Preprocessing is set to none. The AC3 monitor will play back the audio fine. Thought it was just the preview so i built the disc and it happens here as well playing the Video TS file with Apple DVD player. Any ideas what could cause the problem? System is 10.2.8 -FCP3- DVDsp 1.5 - 1.2GB ram. thanks Matt

Ted Springer · March 13th, 2004, 12:35 AM

I am starting to wonder how good A.Pack really is, because this is a common complaint. Notice when the sound is supposed to be loud like an explosion (you DO have explosions in your video, correct?) it gets exceedingly quiet and stays quiet for awhile and then begins to slowly creep back up.

For what it's worth, my 5.1 mixes never pump when played back on a 5.1 system, unless some moron has his DVD player/receiver set to "nighttime" mode or something else equally retarded that quiets the loud sounds. I wish I could program the DVD not to play unless the player/receiver are set up the way I want 'em. I don't think you can take Apple's DVD player off of "nighttime" mode so it will always give you the pumping. When my 5.1 mixes are played back in stereo, I will sometimes hear the pumping.

Also, leave the dialog normilization at -27. I never touch it. I don't even know what it is supposed to do, but chances are it was designed to mess up your sound instead of just compressing the damn file. Be sure to set the sound to "Complete Main" as well.

Matt Stahley · March 13th, 2004, 01:55 AM

Sorry Ted no explosions. Just live concert audio. Complete main is selected and I set Dianorm to -31 following a tutorial over on Ken Stones site when I was researching this problem. Thanks

David Slingerland · March 13th, 2004, 01:58 PM

well the downgrading did not go exacly smoothly... lot of files wont open anymore, I have lost my quiktime pro and safari had to be installed again and the recent problems I am having with fcp are probably also related.
I have no idea what I am supposed to do with the file called "previous system"
greetings

David Slingerland · March 13th, 2004, 03:20 PM

I think the problems I am having with fcp are quiktime related... When I open it and want to look at the registration nothing happens, there is no box were formely I could enter the pro-key. I have to versions of installer on my computer all of sudden. 1.3 and 1.4 (the last one does not work)

help

Milt Lee · March 13th, 2004, 09:11 PM

Hi folks, I've been a PC user for long time, and use Vegas 4.0 which I really like, but I frequently see reviewers start with the preface - "Of course, Final Cut Pro is the standard for NLE.

So....pardon this question, but what is the difference between Vegas 4.0 and Final Cut Pro?

I really appreciate your knowledge, as I clearly have none.

Thanks,
Milt Lee
Lee Productions

Glenn Chan · March 13th, 2004, 09:26 PM

There are big, big difference between Vegas and FCP. If you use FCP Vegas will make no sense to you.

The workflow is completely different. You can try the demo for Premiere Pro, which is very similar to FCP. FCP can handle pro formats like SD/uncompressed, HD, etc. whereas other NLEs may not be able to do it or are expensive like Avid (in the past Avid cost a lot more than it does now). FCP has better media management and has some more useful editing tools like roll edit, which Vegas doesn't seem to have. Vegas gives much more performance for the dollar, has much better audio capabilities (but no OMF export), and some other differences. Vegas seems a lot more stable and doesn't have the "preparing video for display" crap.

FCP now comes bundled with Livetype(titler), Soundtrack (like Acid), Cinema Tools, etc.

2- FCP isn't really the standard for NLE except in some areas like movie trailer editing (and maybe in budget places where people buy the cheapest system available). Avid is really the industry standard in most areas. It shouldn't really matter though unless you need to online on a Avid or FCP system. Get the NLE that's right for you. Since you like Vegas you might as well stick with it unless there's something lacking.

Milt Lee · March 13th, 2004, 09:33 PM

Thanks, I really appreciate the honest appraisal!

I do like Vegas, and I especially like the audio capablities. At some point, I expect to be doing doc's that I want to show on Public Television, so I want to have something that I can output in a broadcast standard.

Thanks,
Milt Lee

Ken Tanaka · March 13th, 2004, 11:07 PM

Milt,
As a relatively long-time FCP user I concur with Glen's remarks. Although FCP is well on its way to becoming a mainstream professional editing tool on par with Avid, Avid has had many years of headstart and has a dedicated sales force permeating the film and broadcast industries.

I would only add this thought. Technical aspects aside (ex: format and functional limitations) the tool you use to edit your work means squat. Viewers of your work don't know and could not care less if they did. If you have become adept with Vegas, Premiere, iMovie, Bozo's Magic Editor, etc. and it serves your requirements use it and be happy. (Editorial comment) I think that far too many people devote far too much energy and expense toward their tools rather than their skills. From what I've seen Vegas, in particular, has matured to a very full-bodied editor leaving little to be desired.

Have fun!

Matt Stahley · March 14th, 2004, 01:58 AM

If anyone was looking into this thread a burn and playback on a consumer DVD player resulted in no audio stuttering or dropouts and breathing like I was experiencing on the DVDSP preview and Apple DVD player.

Rik Sanchez · March 14th, 2004, 09:16 AM

The same audio pumping happened to me also.

What I did was set the dialog normalization to -31 and on the Preprocessing I set the Compression Preset to None and unclicked all the filters (RF Overmodualtion Protection, Apply Low-Pass Filter, Apply DC Filter, etc.)

Hope this helps, let us know if you get it straightened out.

Alfred Okocha · March 14th, 2004, 09:26 AM

Hi.

I finished a job in FCP 3. Exported to a selfcointained FCP file and then recorded a iDVD, dvd.
This DVD was then transfered to a BetaSP.

Not the ideal transfer, I know. But how bad is it?

Thanks.

March 11th, 2004, 09:50 PM	#316
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Fce + Dvdsp? Are there many FCE users out there who are also utilising DVDSP. Succes? Problems? I ask because I had a fellow recommend strongly to upgrade from FCE to FCP, expressly to work with DVDSP, that I will probably avoid compatibility and workflow issues. Does this make sense to others who know better? (I am about to get DVDSP, and it will be a professional dvd product type of application). Or is FCE going to be fine? Thanks very much! Shawn __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

March 12th, 2004, 11:14 PM	#317
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Apple and the Academy Awards Opening Montage Apple has posted some photos of the production of the 2004 ceremony's opening montage. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 12th, 2004, 11:47 PM	#319
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	A.Pack problems possibly? Seems when I preview and or buid disc in SP 1.5 I get a pumping and breathing effect on audio as well as dropouts and phased sounds. The audio (16bit,48k AIFF) is encoded in APack to Stereo AC3 192kbps - Dianorm set to -31 and Preprocessing is set to none. The AC3 monitor will play back the audio fine. Thought it was just the preview so i built the disc and it happens here as well playing the Video TS file with Apple DVD player. Any ideas what could cause the problem? System is 10.2.8 -FCP3- DVDsp 1.5 - 1.2GB ram. thanks Matt

March 13th, 2004, 01:58 PM	#322
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	well the downgrading did not go exacly smoothly... lot of files wont open anymore, I have lost my quiktime pro and safari had to be installed again and the recent problems I am having with fcp are probably also related. I have no idea what I am supposed to do with the file called "previous system" greetings __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

March 13th, 2004, 03:20 PM	#323
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	I think the problems I am having with fcp are quiktime related... When I open it and want to look at the registration nothing happens, there is no box were formely I could enter the pro-key. I have to versions of installer on my computer all of sudden. 1.3 and 1.4 (the last one does not work) help __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

March 12th, 2004, 11:29 PM	#318
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Sweet Airstream studio. Thanks for the link Ken.

March 13th, 2004, 12:35 AM	#320
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	I am starting to wonder how good A.Pack really is, because this is a common complaint. Notice when the sound is supposed to be loud like an explosion (you DO have explosions in your video, correct?) it gets exceedingly quiet and stays quiet for awhile and then begins to slowly creep back up. For what it's worth, my 5.1 mixes never pump when played back on a 5.1 system, unless some moron has his DVD player/receiver set to "nighttime" mode or something else equally retarded that quiets the loud sounds. I wish I could program the DVD not to play unless the player/receiver are set up the way I want 'em. I don't think you can take Apple's DVD player off of "nighttime" mode so it will always give you the pumping. When my 5.1 mixes are played back in stereo, I will sometimes hear the pumping. Also, leave the dialog normilization at -27. I never touch it. I don't even know what it is supposed to do, but chances are it was designed to mess up your sound instead of just compressing the damn file. Be sure to set the sound to "Complete Main" as well.

March 13th, 2004, 01:55 AM	#321
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Sorry Ted no explosions. Just live concert audio. Complete main is selected and I set Dianorm to -31 following a tutorial over on Ken Stones site when I was researching this problem. Thanks

March 13th, 2004, 09:11 PM	#324
Milt Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cass Lake MN Posts: 221	Vegas Vs. Final Cut Pro Hi folks, I've been a PC user for long time, and use Vegas 4.0 which I really like, but I frequently see reviewers start with the preface - "Of course, Final Cut Pro is the standard for NLE. So....pardon this question, but what is the difference between Vegas 4.0 and Final Cut Pro? I really appreciate your knowledge, as I clearly have none. Thanks, Milt Lee Lee Productions

March 13th, 2004, 09:26 PM	#325
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	There are big, big difference between Vegas and FCP. If you use FCP Vegas will make no sense to you. The workflow is completely different. You can try the demo for Premiere Pro, which is very similar to FCP. FCP can handle pro formats like SD/uncompressed, HD, etc. whereas other NLEs may not be able to do it or are expensive like Avid (in the past Avid cost a lot more than it does now). FCP has better media management and has some more useful editing tools like roll edit, which Vegas doesn't seem to have. Vegas gives much more performance for the dollar, has much better audio capabilities (but no OMF export), and some other differences. Vegas seems a lot more stable and doesn't have the "preparing video for display" crap. FCP now comes bundled with Livetype(titler), Soundtrack (like Acid), Cinema Tools, etc. 2- FCP isn't really the standard for NLE except in some areas like movie trailer editing (and maybe in budget places where people buy the cheapest system available). Avid is really the industry standard in most areas. It shouldn't really matter though unless you need to online on a Avid or FCP system. Get the NLE that's right for you. Since you like Vegas you might as well stick with it unless there's something lacking.

March 13th, 2004, 09:33 PM	#326
Milt Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cass Lake MN Posts: 221	Thanks, I really appreciate the honest appraisal! I do like Vegas, and I especially like the audio capablities. At some point, I expect to be doing doc's that I want to show on Public Television, so I want to have something that I can output in a broadcast standard. Thanks, Milt Lee

March 13th, 2004, 11:07 PM	#327
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Milt, As a relatively long-time FCP user I concur with Glen's remarks. Although FCP is well on its way to becoming a mainstream professional editing tool on par with Avid, Avid has had many years of headstart and has a dedicated sales force permeating the film and broadcast industries. I would only add this thought. Technical aspects aside (ex: format and functional limitations) the tool you use to edit your work means squat. Viewers of your work don't know and could not care less if they did. If you have become adept with Vegas, Premiere, iMovie, Bozo's Magic Editor, etc. and it serves your requirements use it and be happy. (Editorial comment) I think that far too many people devote far too much energy and expense toward their tools rather than their skills. From what I've seen Vegas, in particular, has matured to a very full-bodied editor leaving little to be desired. Have fun! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 14th, 2004, 01:58 AM	#328
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	If anyone was looking into this thread a burn and playback on a consumer DVD player resulted in no audio stuttering or dropouts and breathing like I was experiencing on the DVDSP preview and Apple DVD player.

March 14th, 2004, 09:16 AM	#329
Rik Sanchez ChorizoSmells Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 424	The same audio pumping happened to me also. What I did was set the dialog normalization to -31 and on the Preprocessing I set the Compression Preset to None and unclicked all the filters (RF Overmodualtion Protection, Apply Low-Pass Filter, Apply DC Filter, etc.) Hope this helps, let us know if you get it straightened out. __________________ ChorizoSmells Video Barrio Tamatsukuri, Osaka, JAPAN

March 14th, 2004, 09:26 AM	#330
Alfred Okocha Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 427	How much res did I lose? Hi. I finished a job in FCP 3. Exported to a selfcointained FCP file and then recorded a iDVD, dvd. This DVD was then transfered to a BetaSP. Not the ideal transfer, I know. But how bad is it? Thanks.