NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2004

Lawrence Benedict · December 27th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Anyone know the answer to this?

We are shooting at 23.98P standard def anamorphic and caturing to FCP HD (in standard def) using DVCPRO50 anamorphic 2:3:3:2 as advised. FCP is working with the 16x9 (1280x720) just fine but when we create a numbered image file in targa to go to the effects house it squeezes the image and there appears to be no custom size option. I am told by a filmout transfer house that the sqeezed files are normal but the FX house needs them 1280x720.

Also we're now wondering why we needed the pulldown if we are recording and editing 24P.

If anyone knows the solution to this it would be greatly appreciated!

Larry

James Millne · December 27th, 2004, 07:24 PM

I think I might be able to help with the squeezed images. You are not forgetting the difference in pixel sizes are you? DV is recorded at 720x576 but you may find that you are not using square pixels.

Pal DV widescreen pixel aspect ratio is 1.4568 so your image would have to be 720x1.4568 pixels wide.

So check the pixel aspect ratio in your edit package then resize the image accordingly.

Graeme Nattress · December 27th, 2004, 07:29 PM

NTSC DV is 720x480. Your edit and capture should be at that format. You should not use FCP to scale the video to anything else as it's scaling is poor. Use the DV NTSC easy setup for 24p advanced removal for capture. Edit in anamorphic. Bump timeline to uncompressed, re-render, export 720x480 and use something like AE or Shake to scale to 720p and output to image seq.

Graeme

Paul Vlachos · December 27th, 2004, 11:02 PM

Mine seems sharper, too. Been in deep audio window layout and editing so I hadn't even noticed it till I saw this post.

I wonder when FCP 5 is coming out.

Heath McKnight · December 28th, 2004, 10:31 AM

I was fiddling around with my friend's FX1 and I launched Final Cut Pro. I then opened the log and capture window and discovered that there was video in the window!!! Now, before anyone gets excited, it was doing a digital down-convert from HDV 1080i to DV 480i, via firewire (much nicer than the component-only HD10).

So, if you want to skip doing the capturing, demuxing, etc. of HDV and you know you're going to an SD or DV final output, maybe just set the FX1 to do a firewire digital down-convert to 480i (keep it as 16x9) and capture away. It still looks great, even down-converted.

Me, I'll stick with HDV and output to HD and SD/DV, but this is a nice feature that should work on any NLE that captures via firewire.

heath

Imran Zaidi · December 28th, 2004, 12:52 PM

So does the camera itself do this in real-time so no rendering is required to see the footage in the editing application? So essentially the workflow, if you're fine with the down-conversion, would be exactly the same in this scenario as regular DV?

And following that, if you're never going to film and never going to have your film projected on a big screen, only to exist on DVD for TVs, would there be a down side to just editing in the down-converted format?

Forgive me, I'm new to the HDV thing because, quite frankly, I've been very skeptical of it so far. Waiting for people like you to tell me that it's all it's cracked up to be before I invest any grey matter in it :)

Heath McKnight · December 28th, 2004, 01:03 PM

I believe the FX1 has a 2 second delay via firewire but I didn't really look at it. This is according to our FX1 vs. Z1 comparison chart.

heath

Guy Cochran · December 28th, 2004, 02:19 PM

Bad RAM is one of the worst items to trouble-shoot. Even though I'm a total bargain hunter, I have never skimped on RAM. I have always used LifeTime Memory because they do work directly with Apple engineers and have the Lifetime warranty. Even if you ever did get a bad stick (which I haven't in over 10 orders) they will ship you a replacement while you still have the questionable stick. That's service. Read their web page "about us" on the site. Lifetime Memory - About Us

Over the years I have referred my friends, co-workers and students to a guy named Virgil, maybe he can beat that price (maybe not, but it's always worth a try!). Remember they're not the least expensive, but you get a Lifetime warranty and the peace of mind knowing that this is quality stuff. Shop around!

Their number is 1-800-233-6233 ext 159. Virgil at Lifetime

Guy Cochran · December 28th, 2004, 02:49 PM

Does the sample rate of your audio match that of your sequence?

12bit = 32kHz
16bit = 48kHz

Check your camera and see what Bit rate you're recording at. If you're mixing them up, ie. shooting 12 bit, but capturing in FCP native 48kHz you're gonna have issues, FCP has a heck of a time converting on the fly.

Also try turning off "Image + Wireframe" if you're not using it. (Click in the Canvas and choose View>Image)

Click in your Canvas Window and Press "Shift Z" for Zoom to fit

Make sure no windows are overlapping.

Delete any Empty Tracks.

Turn off Audio Waveforms in the Timeline (CMD+Option+W)

What kind of DV device are you using?

That's a wicked fast computer and should not be choppy. Let us know how it goes.

Fred Zara · December 28th, 2004, 03:12 PM

Thanks for all the info. I'm using a sony TRV900 as the deck. I'll try your suggestions.

Thanks again,
Fred

Lawrence Benedict · December 28th, 2004, 03:38 PM

Thanks guys, giving it a try.

Larry

Benjamin Morgan · December 28th, 2004, 05:06 PM

First time I have posted on this great forum! I recently purchased the XL2 in Australia (PAL version), and am relatively new to camcorders and the like.

I have read on this forum that you can slow-motion in 60i (or in my case 50i) by de-interlacing the frames. How is this done?

I have a PowerMac G5 2.5GHz with Final Cut Pro 4 - can this setup do this?

Also, I am very interested in the 16x and 14x manual lens for the XL2, does anyone have any recommendations? I have read that the 16x lens now has a servo driven iris, where the 14x does not? Would I be better purchasing the 14x for the fully manual features?

Any help is appreciated.

Kevin Wild · December 28th, 2004, 05:14 PM

Just wondering what everyone is doing to get 16 x 9 in and out of Final Cut Pro.

I captured everything widescreen and it seemed to work fine, but I could not get it to a widescreen QT file. Everything I tried, it would make it 4 x 3. Anyone want to share their capture and export settings?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Glenn Chan · December 28th, 2004, 06:22 PM

You could test your RAM with the version of memtest for Mac.
http://friskythecat.tripod.com/
It took me a little while to figure it out.

Or if you have a PC you could test it with memtest86 or microsoft's RAM diagnostic tool. You should probably overclock the computer (temporarily!) though as that is a much better test for your RAM.
http://www.memtest86.org

Problems with testing RAM are:
A- A stick of RAM will perform differently in another motherboard.
B- RAM running in dual channel perform slightly worse depending on the stick its paired with. (Not a big deal, just label the sticks.)
C- Your RAM's 'threshold' before it starts producing errors depends on temperature. A memory diagnostic program like Memtest86 may not find errors. But you can get errors once your computer starts rendering and heating up. Some PC users report that prime95 (a stress testing program) finds errors while memtest86 did not. IME I've found something similar.

2- You can run RAM at lower timings for better performance. These timings are programmed into the sticks and on PCs can be overridden through your BIOS. There are 4 timings that make a performance difference (written as something like 3-4-4-8), with the CAS latency timing being the most important (so you see CL2-2-2-5, or CL2 / CL3 / CL2.5 RAM).

With video editing, RAM timings make no effect on rendering performance. (I tried with a PC/Vegas.)

Running RAM at its more conservative timings is likely ideal as it gives you more headroom against crappy RAM and/or RAM failure. I know that Crucial RAM is set to the most conservative settings possible (3-4-4-8).

3- In any case, RAM rarely rarely fails (although it has happened). Sometimes you may get a stick that's dead on arrival (probably more likely with lower quality generic RAM).

You should probably pay more attention to user error and making backups, as those things are much much more likely to prevent problems.

Boyd Ostroff · December 28th, 2004, 08:28 PM

I'm assuming that you are watching the Quicktime files on your computer monitor... actually it isn't even 4:3 when viewed this way, I think you see 720x480 square pixels. Quicktime doesn't really seem to "understand" 16:9 unless it's being sent to a device which can decode it (like a widescreen monitor). If you want to view 16:9 on a computer monitor you will need to render it in the correct proportions for a square pixel device. For NTSC that would be 854x480.

If you set the properties for your clips to anamorphic 16:9, then set your sequence to 16:9 everything will look right within FCP as you edit. The resulting video will only look right when viewed on a 16:9 screen however. On a 4:3 monitor it will be squashed into the 4:3 frame. And if you open the clips directly in Quicktime (eg: NOT inside FCP) they will just be 720x480.

December 27th, 2004, 04:15 PM	#1801
Lawrence Benedict Tourist Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	XL2 23.98P & Final Cut Pro HD Anyone know the answer to this? We are shooting at 23.98P standard def anamorphic and caturing to FCP HD (in standard def) using DVCPRO50 anamorphic 2:3:3:2 as advised. FCP is working with the 16x9 (1280x720) just fine but when we create a numbered image file in targa to go to the effects house it squeezes the image and there appears to be no custom size option. I am told by a filmout transfer house that the sqeezed files are normal but the FX house needs them 1280x720. Also we're now wondering why we needed the pulldown if we are recording and editing 24P. If anyone knows the solution to this it would be greatly appreciated! Larry __________________ Larry

December 27th, 2004, 07:29 PM	#1803
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	NTSC DV is 720x480. Your edit and capture should be at that format. You should not use FCP to scale the video to anything else as it's scaling is poor. Use the DV NTSC easy setup for 24p advanced removal for capture. Edit in anamorphic. Bump timeline to uncompressed, re-render, export 720x480 and use something like AE or Shake to scale to 720p and output to image seq. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 27th, 2004, 11:02 PM	#1804
Paul Vlachos Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 88	Mine seems sharper, too. Been in deep audio window layout and editing so I hadn't even noticed it till I saw this post. I wonder when FCP 5 is coming out. __________________ One day at a time.

December 28th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#1805
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	FX1 capturing discovery! I was fiddling around with my friend's FX1 and I launched Final Cut Pro. I then opened the log and capture window and discovered that there was video in the window!!! Now, before anyone gets excited, it was doing a digital down-convert from HDV 1080i to DV 480i, via firewire (much nicer than the component-only HD10). So, if you want to skip doing the capturing, demuxing, etc. of HDV and you know you're going to an SD or DV final output, maybe just set the FX1 to do a firewire digital down-convert to 480i (keep it as 16x9) and capture away. It still looks great, even down-converted. Me, I'll stick with HDV and output to HD and SD/DV, but this is a nice feature that should work on any NLE that captures via firewire. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 28th, 2004, 01:03 PM	#1807
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I believe the FX1 has a 2 second delay via firewire but I didn't really look at it. This is according to our FX1 vs. Z1 comparison chart. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 27th, 2004, 07:24 PM	#1802
James Millne Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newcastle, England Posts: 37	I think I might be able to help with the squeezed images. You are not forgetting the difference in pixel sizes are you? DV is recorded at 720x576 but you may find that you are not using square pixels. Pal DV widescreen pixel aspect ratio is 1.4568 so your image would have to be 720x1.4568 pixels wide. So check the pixel aspect ratio in your edit package then resize the image accordingly.

December 28th, 2004, 12:52 PM	#1806
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	So does the camera itself do this in real-time so no rendering is required to see the footage in the editing application? So essentially the workflow, if you're fine with the down-conversion, would be exactly the same in this scenario as regular DV? And following that, if you're never going to film and never going to have your film projected on a big screen, only to exist on DVD for TVs, would there be a down side to just editing in the down-converted format? Forgive me, I'm new to the HDV thing because, quite frankly, I've been very skeptical of it so far. Waiting for people like you to tell me that it's all it's cracked up to be before I invest any grey matter in it :)

December 28th, 2004, 02:19 PM	#1808
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	Bad RAM is one of the worst items to trouble-shoot. Even though I'm a total bargain hunter, I have never skimped on RAM. I have always used LifeTime Memory because they do work directly with Apple engineers and have the Lifetime warranty. Even if you ever did get a bad stick (which I haven't in over 10 orders) they will ship you a replacement while you still have the questionable stick. That's service. Read their web page "about us" on the site. Lifetime Memory - About Us Over the years I have referred my friends, co-workers and students to a guy named Virgil, maybe he can beat that price (maybe not, but it's always worth a try!). Remember they're not the least expensive, but you get a Lifetime warranty and the peace of mind knowing that this is quality stuff. Shop around! Their number is 1-800-233-6233 ext 159. Virgil at Lifetime __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

December 28th, 2004, 02:49 PM	#1809
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	Does the sample rate of your audio match that of your sequence? 12bit = 32kHz 16bit = 48kHz Check your camera and see what Bit rate you're recording at. If you're mixing them up, ie. shooting 12 bit, but capturing in FCP native 48kHz you're gonna have issues, FCP has a heck of a time converting on the fly. Also try turning off "Image + Wireframe" if you're not using it. (Click in the Canvas and choose View>Image) Click in your Canvas Window and Press "Shift Z" for Zoom to fit Make sure no windows are overlapping. Delete any Empty Tracks. Turn off Audio Waveforms in the Timeline (CMD+Option+W) What kind of DV device are you using? That's a wicked fast computer and should not be choppy. Let us know how it goes. __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

December 28th, 2004, 03:12 PM	#1810
Fred Zara New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL USA Posts: 5	Thanks for all the info. I'm using a sony TRV900 as the deck. I'll try your suggestions. Thanks again, Fred

December 28th, 2004, 03:38 PM	#1811
Lawrence Benedict Tourist Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	Thanks guys, giving it a try. Larry __________________ Larry

December 28th, 2004, 05:06 PM	#1812
Benjamin Morgan Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 3	De-interlacing XL2 50i (PAL) with Final Cut Pro 4 First time I have posted on this great forum! I recently purchased the XL2 in Australia (PAL version), and am relatively new to camcorders and the like. I have read on this forum that you can slow-motion in 60i (or in my case 50i) by de-interlacing the frames. How is this done? I have a PowerMac G5 2.5GHz with Final Cut Pro 4 - can this setup do this? Also, I am very interested in the 16x and 14x manual lens for the XL2, does anyone have any recommendations? I have read that the 16x lens now has a servo driven iris, where the 14x does not? Would I be better purchasing the 14x for the fully manual features? Any help is appreciated. __________________ Benjamin Morgan Director - AppleCentre TaylorSquare Sydney, Australia.

December 28th, 2004, 05:14 PM	#1813
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	FCP Workflow/Settings for 16 x 9 Capture/Export Just wondering what everyone is doing to get 16 x 9 in and out of Final Cut Pro. I captured everything widescreen and it seemed to work fine, but I could not get it to a widescreen QT file. Everything I tried, it would make it 4 x 3. Anyone want to share their capture and export settings? Thanks in advance! Kevin

December 28th, 2004, 06:22 PM	#1814
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You could test your RAM with the version of memtest for Mac. http://friskythecat.tripod.com/ It took me a little while to figure it out. Or if you have a PC you could test it with memtest86 or microsoft's RAM diagnostic tool. You should probably overclock the computer (temporarily!) though as that is a much better test for your RAM. http://www.memtest86.org Problems with testing RAM are: A- A stick of RAM will perform differently in another motherboard. B- RAM running in dual channel perform slightly worse depending on the stick its paired with. (Not a big deal, just label the sticks.) C- Your RAM's 'threshold' before it starts producing errors depends on temperature. A memory diagnostic program like Memtest86 may not find errors. But you can get errors once your computer starts rendering and heating up. Some PC users report that prime95 (a stress testing program) finds errors while memtest86 did not. IME I've found something similar. 2- You can run RAM at lower timings for better performance. These timings are programmed into the sticks and on PCs can be overridden through your BIOS. There are 4 timings that make a performance difference (written as something like 3-4-4-8), with the CAS latency timing being the most important (so you see CL2-2-2-5, or CL2 / CL3 / CL2.5 RAM). With video editing, RAM timings make no effect on rendering performance. (I tried with a PC/Vegas.) Running RAM at its more conservative timings is likely ideal as it gives you more headroom against crappy RAM and/or RAM failure. I know that Crucial RAM is set to the most conservative settings possible (3-4-4-8). 3- In any case, RAM rarely rarely fails (although it has happened). Sometimes you may get a stick that's dead on arrival (probably more likely with lower quality generic RAM). You should probably pay more attention to user error and making backups, as those things are much much more likely to prevent problems.

December 28th, 2004, 08:28 PM	#1815
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	I'm assuming that you are watching the Quicktime files on your computer monitor... actually it isn't even 4:3 when viewed this way, I think you see 720x480 square pixels. Quicktime doesn't really seem to "understand" 16:9 unless it's being sent to a device which can decode it (like a widescreen monitor). If you want to view 16:9 on a computer monitor you will need to render it in the correct proportions for a square pixel device. For NTSC that would be 854x480. If you set the properties for your clips to anamorphic 16:9, then set your sequence to 16:9 everything will look right within FCP as you edit. The resulting video will only look right when viewed on a 16:9 screen however. On a 4:3 monitor it will be squashed into the 4:3 frame. And if you open the clips directly in Quicktime (eg: NOT inside FCP) they will just be 720x480.