Clean Compress to DV NTSC Anamorphic?

Elvis Ripley · July 3rd, 2009, 11:53 AM

I tried that to see what you were talking about.

Using the built in DV preset there isn't a scaling setting turned on so that is probably causing the problems you are seeing. In the 3rd tab "Frame Controls" turn them on and set them to better or best and that should fix your problems. There is still some jaggedness on the red striped but that is on the HD file. I would turn off sharpening in your camera. If you want to sharpen then do that as the last step not in the camera if you are planning on manipulating your video in some way. Resizing is a manipulation.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
720p to DV no scaling
http://elvisripley.com/stuff/ftp/hm1...no_Scaling.zip

720p to DV best scaling
http://elvisripley.com/stuff/ftp/hm1...st_Scaling.zip

Donald Smith · July 3rd, 2009, 12:15 PM

That's my point Shaun, I don't get a clean conversion. That's why I would like others to try with the sample video in my above note and tell me their results. If others get the Moire' artifacts, then something else is at work and I'd like to sleuth it out. If others DON'T get the same result, then something is buggering my Mac Pro.

Elvis Ripley · July 3rd, 2009, 12:20 PM

Did you look at my videos? Was what I got the same thing as what you got? Did my second video look like the one you liked from MPEG Stream clip?

Shaun Roemich · July 3rd, 2009, 12:30 PM

Donald that is some NASTY interlacing artifacting.

No idea what's causing that.

Donald Smith · July 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM

Shaun, yes, I looked at them and the trouble exists in both samples. Now, take a look at that same clip processed by MPEG Streamclip:

http://newsvideo.com/720ptoDVStreamclip.mov.zip

Elvis Ripley · July 3rd, 2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Smith

Shaun, yes, I looked at them and the trouble exists in both samples. Now, take a look at that same clip processed by MPEG Streamclip:

http://newsvideo.com/720ptoDVStreamclip.mov.zip

This link didn't work.

Donald Smith · July 3rd, 2009, 01:35 PM

Sorry about the bad link. The "t" in "To" should be capitalized:

http://newsvideo.com/720pToDVStreamclip.mov.zip

Robert Rogoz · July 3rd, 2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Donald that is some NASTY interlacing artifacting.

No idea what's causing that.

Say you shoot 720p. That's 720 lines of horizontal resolution and every field is scanned whole. Now you downsize it to 480i (That's what DV NTSC is). Not only you drop pretty much every third line, but also you show only even and odd lines in each frame. In FCP5 in the compressor settings there used to be 30p and 24p. In FCS2 Compressor there is only DV NTSC, which is 480i. My head spins why would they remove 480/30p and 48024p? Anyway, you can use third party apps, like Toast or Streamclip. What I would try in the Compressor would be to pop it out as XDCAM, but scale it down to 480 lines progressive and then run again through compressor to turn in into DV NTSC (480p to 480i anamorphic).

Donald Smith · July 3rd, 2009, 02:10 PM

The original footage is XDCAM EX in a Quicktim .mov wrapper. That's how the camera shoots it. I tried to first convert to everything in the book and then to DV NTSC and no joy. Converting first to MPEG-2 gave it a nice look, so I then took the MPEG-2 file and converted it to DV NTSC and, the artifacts came back!

Keep in mind that this is all academic now since MPEG Streamclip saved my bacon! Now, I'd just like to know what's happening with Compressor.

Robert Rogoz · July 3rd, 2009, 02:18 PM

Donald, I guess this is just crappy program for interlacing footage. Looks like things get mangled during interlace process. My point was to export it as XDCAM codec, but instead 720 or 1080 use 480 in the settings. Then interlace it to 480i.
I'll try it next week, as I am too busy right now.
I know it is academic, but I would also like to know the answer to this one, as I might run into the same request in the future.

Shaun Roemich · July 3rd, 2009, 03:13 PM

Robert: I understand what you're saying but MY downconverts from 720P (on JVC HD200u at 60P) are clean. Mind you, I HAVE turned down the detail for a more cinematic "sharpness" (or lack thereof). The EX series are notoriously sharp. Perhaps that plays in?

Donald Smith · July 3rd, 2009, 05:27 PM

Here's my point; All of us here have either the HM100 or the HM700 or are interested in the camera. This is a wake-up call that video from the camera (HM700 in my case) doesn't compress well to DV using Compressor and I would like to investigate that. We're fine though, because MPEG Streamclip saves the day, but I would like to know why Compressor has a hard time (compressing to DV, anyway) with the video from the 100 or 700.

The only settings I've changed on my camera is to use Cinema Vivid, Compress the Black one step, and enhance the color by one step. While the detail in the picture shouldn't make a difference, I've not changed that.

Now, when is SOMEBODY going to download my 3-second clip, use Compressor with the DV NTSC setting, and report back?

Elvis Ripley · July 4th, 2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Smith

Now, when is SOMEBODY going to download my 3-second clip, use Compressor with the DV NTSC setting, and report back?

Did you miss that I did that?

Ron Edwards · July 4th, 2009, 09:06 AM

Don,

If your looking for the final output to be SD, then shoot 1920x1080 35mb (interlaced) and let the cam convert to SD DV thru the firewire out. Just be sure to set the manual switch to DV and set the 4:3 in the menus. Slower than drag and drop but no funny stuff and additional time using other programs.

RonE

Shaun Roemich · July 5th, 2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Smith

Now, when is SOMEBODY going to download my 3-second clip, use Compressor with the DV NTSC setting, and report back?

I did and I reported back.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't use Compressor. I used FCP the same way I use MY clips and the moiré in your clip in my timeline was AWFUL.

July 3rd, 2009, 12:30 PM	#19
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Donald that is some NASTY interlacing artifacting. No idea what's causing that. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

July 3rd, 2009, 03:13 PM	#26
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Robert: I understand what you're saying but MY downconverts from 720P (on JVC HD200u at 60P) are clean. Mind you, I HAVE turned down the detail for a more cinematic "sharpness" (or lack thereof). The EX series are notoriously sharp. Perhaps that plays in? __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

July 3rd, 2009, 11:53 AM	#16
Elvis Ripley Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: OK Posts: 62	I tried that to see what you were talking about. Using the built in DV preset there isn't a scaling setting turned on so that is probably causing the problems you are seeing. In the 3rd tab "Frame Controls" turn them on and set them to better or best and that should fix your problems. There is still some jaggedness on the red striped but that is on the HD file. I would turn off sharpening in your camera. If you want to sharpen then do that as the last step not in the camera if you are planning on manipulating your video in some way. Resizing is a manipulation. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. 720p to DV no scaling http://elvisripley.com/stuff/ftp/hm1...no_Scaling.zip 720p to DV best scaling http://elvisripley.com/stuff/ftp/hm1...st_Scaling.zip

July 3rd, 2009, 12:15 PM	#17
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	That's my point Shaun, I don't get a clean conversion. That's why I would like others to try with the sample video in my above note and tell me their results. If others get the Moire' artifacts, then something else is at work and I'd like to sleuth it out. If others DON'T get the same result, then something is buggering my Mac Pro.

July 3rd, 2009, 12:20 PM	#18
Elvis Ripley Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: OK Posts: 62	Did you look at my videos? Was what I got the same thing as what you got? Did my second video look like the one you liked from MPEG Stream clip?

July 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM	#20
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	Shaun, yes, I looked at them and the trouble exists in both samples. Now, take a look at that same clip processed by MPEG Streamclip: http://newsvideo.com/720ptoDVStreamclip.mov.zip

July 3rd, 2009, 01:35 PM	#22
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	Sorry about the bad link. The "t" in "To" should be capitalized: http://newsvideo.com/720pToDVStreamclip.mov.zip

July 3rd, 2009, 02:10 PM	#24
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	The original footage is XDCAM EX in a Quicktim .mov wrapper. That's how the camera shoots it. I tried to first convert to everything in the book and then to DV NTSC and no joy. Converting first to MPEG-2 gave it a nice look, so I then took the MPEG-2 file and converted it to DV NTSC and, the artifacts came back! Keep in mind that this is all academic now since MPEG Streamclip saved my bacon! Now, I'd just like to know what's happening with Compressor.

July 3rd, 2009, 02:18 PM	#25
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Donald, I guess this is just crappy program for interlacing footage. Looks like things get mangled during interlace process. My point was to export it as XDCAM codec, but instead 720 or 1080 use 480 in the settings. Then interlace it to 480i. I'll try it next week, as I am too busy right now. I know it is academic, but I would also like to know the answer to this one, as I might run into the same request in the future.

July 3rd, 2009, 05:27 PM	#27
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	Here's my point; All of us here have either the HM100 or the HM700 or are interested in the camera. This is a wake-up call that video from the camera (HM700 in my case) doesn't compress well to DV using Compressor and I would like to investigate that. We're fine though, because MPEG Streamclip saves the day, but I would like to know why Compressor has a hard time (compressing to DV, anyway) with the video from the 100 or 700. The only settings I've changed on my camera is to use Cinema Vivid, Compress the Black one step, and enhance the color by one step. While the detail in the picture shouldn't make a difference, I've not changed that. Now, when is SOMEBODY going to download my 3-second clip, use Compressor with the DV NTSC setting, and report back?

July 4th, 2009, 09:06 AM	#29
Ron Edwards Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairview Heights, Illinois Posts: 148	Don, If your looking for the final output to be SD, then shoot 1920x1080 35mb (interlaced) and let the cam convert to SD DV thru the firewire out. Just be sure to set the manual switch to DV and set the 4:3 in the menus. Slower than drag and drop but no funny stuff and additional time using other programs. RonE