2009 Mac Pro ... Big Problem! Apple needs to take action! at DVinfo.net

Andrew Waite · June 22nd, 2009, 01:28 PM

Ok, so I just got the NEW Mac Pro 8-Core... totally decked out with 16GB RAM, Raid Card, four 1TB HDDs, two Nvidia GT120 cards, two LED 24" Cinema displays, THE WORKS, right?

I fire up FCP for the first time and start playing around and wouldn't you know it... NO DUEL MONITOR SUPPORT IN FCP! What the cheese! Called Apple, yup, they don't bother telling you that Final Cut Pro doesn't support duel monitors when you are using 24" LED Cinema Displays because the Cinema Displays only have Mini Display Port connectors and there is no single GFX Card supported by Apple that has Duel Mini Display Ports on it!!!! Thanks!

So what are my options here? The first thought was convert the Mini Display Port to a DVI using an adapter... WRONG, they don't make a female Mini Display Port to Male DVI adapter, at least not one I could find after hours of searching the internet.

Any ideas folks?

Andy Wilkinson · June 22nd, 2009, 01:53 PM

Well, I agree it stinks but as I pointed out on another thread my 2009 Nehalem Mac Pro works great with two Dell 24 inch displays with FCS2...albeit one connected via the £20 Apple mini Display Port to DVI adapter (using a single ATI 4870 Graphics card).

EDIT: Removed my rant about Apple over this stupid display port thing.

Nigel Barker · June 22nd, 2009, 02:07 PM

I don't understand. You have two graphics cards each with a DisplayPort & two monitors each with a DisplayPort. Are you saying that when you connect one monitor to each graphics card that only one monitor works?

Andrew Waite · June 22nd, 2009, 03:18 PM

Yup... I have two GFX cards... each card has 1 DVI port and 1 MiniDisplay port. The new 24" LED Cinema Displays only have MiniDisplay Ports. Hense you need two cards to use two monitors (this much, and only this much Apple tells you when you buy the Mac Pro). What they don't tell you is FCP will not work with TWO cards... only one card with two ports... the problem is, there is no way to adapt a DVI female to a MiniDisplay Port female! So I'm stuck!

Robert Lane · June 22nd, 2009, 06:09 PM

You've got to be kidding me, really?

First, if you just purchased your system then you get free tech support from Apple. Step one: take it to the Genius Bar at the Apple Store and open a formal trouble ticket. Keep pushing this issue until it gets escalated to management (I've done this and it works).

One of two things should happen: Either Apple will acknowledge the goof in configuration or; you'll get a refund for the hardware you can't use as expected (you'll need to surrender the video card or whatever is part of the problem).

This won't go anywhere for you - or anyone else in the same boat - unless you go through proper channels. This situation is a deal-killer for many and should not be left in the corner.

Nigel Barker · June 22nd, 2009, 11:38 PM

I am still trying to understand what your problem is. What exactly do you mean by "FCP will not work with TWO cards... only one card with two ports..."

FCP certainly does work with two graphics cards as my wife uses FCP on her Mac Pro which has two graphics cards & four monitors. She had an issue with using some effects until I upgraded the stock ATI 2600s to ATI 3870s with 512MB memory.

Andrew Waite · June 22nd, 2009, 11:53 PM

It has to do with multiple apple cinema display with the new mini display port... There is no problem with dvi or VGA.. It's the new freaking minidisplay ports!!!! No support in fcp and two LED ACDs!!!

Tim Dashwood · June 23rd, 2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

The first thought was convert the Mini Display Port to a DVI using an adapter... WRONG, they don't make a female Mini Display Port to Male DVI adapter, at least not one I could find after hours of searching the internet.

I bought the latest MacPro 8-core last month with the NVIDIA GeForce 120 and it works perfectly with two DVI monitors. I just bought the $30 mini-displayport to DVI adapter at the Apple Store for the second monitor. Two cards weren't necessary.

I'm not sure if they make a DVI to miniDisplayPort adapter to use two miniDisplayPort monitors on one card? Could you not use the same adapter I used on the monitor side to adapt DVI back to miniDisplayPort?

Nigel Barker · June 23rd, 2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

It has to do with multiple apple cinema display with the new mini display port... There is no problem with dvi or VGA.. It's the new freaking minidisplay ports!!!! No support in fcp and two LED ACDs!!!

Sorry to keep flogging this but you still haven't explained your problem. I just don't see how the two monitors cannot work on two separate video cards.

Please be explicit. What do you mean by "No support in fcp and two LED ACDs". What doesn't work? You pull an FCP window from your main monitor over to the secondary monitor & what happens?

I don't get it. If there is no problem with VGA or DVI but only with DisplayPort. FCP doesn't know or care how the display device is hooked up to the Mac. After some pretty extensive Googling I can find nobody else complaining that FCP doesn't work with two 24" Apple Cinema Displays. Are you sure that you have your facts straight?

Nigel Barker · June 23rd, 2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

I'm not sure if they make a DVI to miniDisplayPort adapter to use two miniDisplayPort monitors on one card? Could you not use the same adapter I used on the monitor side to adapt DVI back to miniDisplayPort?

It doesn't work like that. A DisplayPort output on a graphics card is backwards compatible with DVI as far as being able to output a DVI or VGA signal however a DisplayPort monitor input cannot accept a DVI or VGA input. It is analogous to a DVI output being able to supply VGA signals & use a converter plug but not vice-versa.

It does seem remarkably short-sighted of Apple not to also provide a DVI socket on their 24" displays as it means for even for the current 17" MacBook Pro the only screen they sell that it can connect to is the 30". The transition from VGA to DVI for connecting LCD monitors has taken years & for a long time they all had both connectors & the cheap ones still do.

Andrew Waite · June 23rd, 2009, 08:55 AM

Apple LED Cinema displays are ONLY MiniDisplay Port. You can adapt MDP to DVI, but you cannot adapt DVI to MDP making it IMPOSSIBLE tou use TWO Apple LED Cinema Displays on a Mac Pro. Period.

Sure it is possible to use two NON Apple displays by using an adapter. But, that's not my point. My point is that you can't use two monitors in FCP using ONLY and ALL Apple hardware... Which to me is CRAZY!

Andrew Waite · June 23rd, 2009, 09:08 AM

Nigel,

traditional two display workflow in FCP... Timeline on one monitor and preview window full screen on the other. This can ONLY be achieved on the same gfx card, NOT across two gfx cards. Being there is only ONE MDP per gfx card and The LED ACD is ONLY MDP and the is no way to convert DVI to MDP (only MDP to DVI) there is NO Options for using two ACDs for FCP. Yes it works fine in OSX for normal computing, but not FCP!!! By the way, it works fne in premiere, which pisses me off more tha Adobe can get it right and it's not even their hardware!

Hopefully that is the last time I have to try and explain it.

Andy Wilkinson · June 23rd, 2009, 09:57 AM

Yep, this stupid MDP thing has been discussed on some of the Apple forums a number of times the last few months. It's madness on Apple's part but that's what we've come to expect from them recently. They have really dropped the ball in a number of areas that us "video pros" would never have expected say 6-9 months ago.

We can all hope that now Jobs is back he'll start firing some of the Marketing types that pushed the MDP connection format in an attempt to lock Apple fan boys into their display hardware (and ironically has done the exact opposite regarding displays for the reasons you've explained...no way to get two new ACDs running on a 2009 Mac Pro for FCS2!). As I've mentioned, it works a treat with 24 inch Dell displays! (are you listening Apple?)

Then there are the recent Mac Book Pro gaffs like glossy screen only on most types now, no Express Slot 34 for expansion on most...and so on ....but I'll end up ranting again and deleting it all again shortly afterwards! Maybe when Snow Leopard and FCS3 appear the big picture will become apparent for pro applications like video production - but it sure looks fuzzy and ill thought out right now (at least to me!)

Glen Elliott · June 23rd, 2009, 11:15 AM

Andrew- sorry to hear about your predicament. Years ago when I was still on a PC I purchased a Dell 30" display only to realize my graphics card wouldn't support it. I sat with the new computer and display for a week waiting for the new graphics card to come it- it killed me!

Your situation sounds even worse and I empathize with you. Totally Apple's fault for not flagging a faulty config- then again maybe they didn't account for the software being used. Apple should have to take the hardware back. I'd go with a different config- with a single graphics card. At the very least they should let you return one of the LED displays!

HOWEVER....When you explained HOW you were going to be using your dual LED monitors I realized that's not the way you want to go at all. You do NOT want to use a secondary monitor (via a graphics card) to be used to proof your (color) edits.

First of all the colors will NOT be accurate- considering they are affected by your videocard(s) LUT. Second, Apple LED monitors are the least configurable out of all the monitors sold. There are no adjustments on it- only via the color profiler in the OS.

You should go with a single monitor and connect an external display (preferably NOT a computer monitor) via HDMI using a Black Magic Intensity card. That's how I'm set up on my workstation on the left. I have a Samsung 46" 1080p display as my main work area and output my canvas to the 32" monitor to the right (mounted on a cantilever) This 32" Samsung model even has BLUE ONLY which is unheard of for a consumer television. It makes setting the chroma a breeze!

Just some suggestions man. Either way I hope you get it sorted out!!!

PS Sorry for the mess- it's cleaned up since then!
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Laz...reenstudio.jpg

Shaun Roemich · June 23rd, 2009, 11:31 AM

Glen: I agree with your comments but allow me to throw one more "ball" into this:
I like having as much real estate as possible for my timeline window (for multiple layers) so my IDEAL build for my next system would have THREE monitors:

Far left: Viewer (small) and Canvas (large)
Middle: Timeline
Far Right: Bins

And this isn't for colour correction, this is just to make sure I can see EVERYTHING at once without having to scroll (a problem I face all the time in my Timeline window...)

So, just because someone wants a large Canvas window doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they are using it for colour correction (although Andrew MAY be looking to do exactly that...)

Sometimes it's just nice to see your canvas window in pixel to pixel resolution.

June 22nd, 2009, 01:28 PM	#1
Andrew Waite Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 307	2009 Mac Pro ... Big Problem! Apple needs to take action! Ok, so I just got the NEW Mac Pro 8-Core... totally decked out with 16GB RAM, Raid Card, four 1TB HDDs, two Nvidia GT120 cards, two LED 24" Cinema displays, THE WORKS, right? I fire up FCP for the first time and start playing around and wouldn't you know it... NO DUEL MONITOR SUPPORT IN FCP! What the cheese! Called Apple, yup, they don't bother telling you that Final Cut Pro doesn't support duel monitors when you are using 24" LED Cinema Displays because the Cinema Displays only have Mini Display Port connectors and there is no single GFX Card supported by Apple that has Duel Mini Display Ports on it!!!! Thanks! So what are my options here? The first thought was convert the Mini Display Port to a DVI using an adapter... WRONG, they don't make a female Mini Display Port to Male DVI adapter, at least not one I could find after hours of searching the internet. Any ideas folks? __________________ http://www.higherdefinitionmedia.com RED One #6135 "Spartacus"

June 22nd, 2009, 01:53 PM	#2
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Well, I agree it stinks but as I pointed out on another thread my 2009 Nehalem Mac Pro works great with two Dell 24 inch displays with FCS2...albeit one connected via the £20 Apple mini Display Port to DVI adapter (using a single ATI 4870 Graphics card). EDIT: Removed my rant about Apple over this stupid display port thing. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; June 22nd, 2009 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Keeping thread on topic

June 22nd, 2009, 03:18 PM	#4
Andrew Waite Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 307	Yup... I have two GFX cards... each card has 1 DVI port and 1 MiniDisplay port. The new 24" LED Cinema Displays only have MiniDisplay Ports. Hense you need two cards to use two monitors (this much, and only this much Apple tells you when you buy the Mac Pro). What they don't tell you is FCP will not work with TWO cards... only one card with two ports... the problem is, there is no way to adapt a DVI female to a MiniDisplay Port female! So I'm stuck! __________________ http://www.higherdefinitionmedia.com RED One #6135 "Spartacus"

June 22nd, 2009, 11:53 PM	#7
Andrew Waite Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 307	It has to do with multiple apple cinema display with the new mini display port... There is no problem with dvi or VGA.. It's the new freaking minidisplay ports!!!! No support in fcp and two LED ACDs!!! __________________ http://www.higherdefinitionmedia.com RED One #6135 "Spartacus"

June 23rd, 2009, 08:55 AM	#11
Andrew Waite Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 307	Apple LED Cinema displays are ONLY MiniDisplay Port. You can adapt MDP to DVI, but you cannot adapt DVI to MDP making it IMPOSSIBLE tou use TWO Apple LED Cinema Displays on a Mac Pro. Period. Sure it is possible to use two NON Apple displays by using an adapter. But, that's not my point. My point is that you can't use two monitors in FCP using ONLY and ALL Apple hardware... Which to me is CRAZY! __________________ http://www.higherdefinitionmedia.com RED One #6135 "Spartacus"

June 22nd, 2009, 02:07 PM	#3
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	I don't understand. You have two graphics cards each with a DisplayPort & two monitors each with a DisplayPort. Are you saying that when you connect one monitor to each graphics card that only one monitor works?

June 22nd, 2009, 06:09 PM	#5
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	You've got to be kidding me, really? First, if you just purchased your system then you get free tech support from Apple. Step one: take it to the Genius Bar at the Apple Store and open a formal trouble ticket. Keep pushing this issue until it gets escalated to management (I've done this and it works). One of two things should happen: Either Apple will acknowledge the goof in configuration or; you'll get a refund for the hardware you can't use as expected (you'll need to surrender the video card or whatever is part of the problem). This won't go anywhere for you - or anyone else in the same boat - unless you go through proper channels. This situation is a deal-killer for many and should not be left in the corner.

June 22nd, 2009, 11:38 PM	#6
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	I am still trying to understand what your problem is. What exactly do you mean by "FCP will not work with TWO cards... only one card with two ports..." FCP certainly does work with two graphics cards as my wife uses FCP on her Mac Pro which has two graphics cards & four monitors. She had an issue with using some effects until I upgraded the stock ATI 2600s to ATI 3870s with 512MB memory.

June 23rd, 2009, 09:08 AM	#12
Andrew Waite Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 307	Nigel, traditional two display workflow in FCP... Timeline on one monitor and preview window full screen on the other. This can ONLY be achieved on the same gfx card, NOT across two gfx cards. Being there is only ONE MDP per gfx card and The LED ACD is ONLY MDP and the is no way to convert DVI to MDP (only MDP to DVI) there is NO Options for using two ACDs for FCP. Yes it works fine in OSX for normal computing, but not FCP!!! By the way, it works fne in premiere, which pisses me off more tha Adobe can get it right and it's not even their hardware! Hopefully that is the last time I have to try and explain it. __________________ http://www.higherdefinitionmedia.com RED One #6135 "Spartacus"

June 23rd, 2009, 09:57 AM	#13
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Yep, this stupid MDP thing has been discussed on some of the Apple forums a number of times the last few months. It's madness on Apple's part but that's what we've come to expect from them recently. They have really dropped the ball in a number of areas that us "video pros" would never have expected say 6-9 months ago. We can all hope that now Jobs is back he'll start firing some of the Marketing types that pushed the MDP connection format in an attempt to lock Apple fan boys into their display hardware (and ironically has done the exact opposite regarding displays for the reasons you've explained...no way to get two new ACDs running on a 2009 Mac Pro for FCS2!). As I've mentioned, it works a treat with 24 inch Dell displays! (are you listening Apple?) Then there are the recent Mac Book Pro gaffs like glossy screen only on most types now, no Express Slot 34 for expansion on most...and so on ....but I'll end up ranting again and deleting it all again shortly afterwards! Maybe when Snow Leopard and FCS3 appear the big picture will become apparent for pro applications like video production - but it sure looks fuzzy and ill thought out right now (at least to me!) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

June 23rd, 2009, 11:15 AM	#14
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Andrew- sorry to hear about your predicament. Years ago when I was still on a PC I purchased a Dell 30" display only to realize my graphics card wouldn't support it. I sat with the new computer and display for a week waiting for the new graphics card to come it- it killed me! Your situation sounds even worse and I empathize with you. Totally Apple's fault for not flagging a faulty config- then again maybe they didn't account for the software being used. Apple should have to take the hardware back. I'd go with a different config- with a single graphics card. At the very least they should let you return one of the LED displays! HOWEVER....When you explained HOW you were going to be using your dual LED monitors I realized that's not the way you want to go at all. You do NOT want to use a secondary monitor (via a graphics card) to be used to proof your (color) edits. First of all the colors will NOT be accurate- considering they are affected by your videocard(s) LUT. Second, Apple LED monitors are the least configurable out of all the monitors sold. There are no adjustments on it- only via the color profiler in the OS. You should go with a single monitor and connect an external display (preferably NOT a computer monitor) via HDMI using a Black Magic Intensity card. That's how I'm set up on my workstation on the left. I have a Samsung 46" 1080p display as my main work area and output my canvas to the 32" monitor to the right (mounted on a cantilever) This 32" Samsung model even has BLUE ONLY which is unheard of for a consumer television. It makes setting the chroma a breeze! Just some suggestions man. Either way I hope you get it sorted out!!! PS Sorry for the mess- it's cleaned up since then! http://www.msprotege.com/members/Laz...reenstudio.jpg __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

June 23rd, 2009, 11:31 AM	#15
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Glen: I agree with your comments but allow me to throw one more "ball" into this: I like having as much real estate as possible for my timeline window (for multiple layers) so my IDEAL build for my next system would have THREE monitors: Far left: Viewer (small) and Canvas (large) Middle: Timeline Far Right: Bins And this isn't for colour correction, this is just to make sure I can see EVERYTHING at once without having to scroll (a problem I face all the time in my Timeline window...) So, just because someone wants a large Canvas window doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they are using it for colour correction (although Andrew MAY be looking to do exactly that...) Sometimes it's just nice to see your canvas window in pixel to pixel resolution. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/