2009 Mac Pro ... Big Problem! Apple needs to take action!

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Andrew Waite

Nigel,

traditional two display workflow in FCP... Timeline on one monitor and preview window full screen on the other. This can ONLY be achieved on the same gfx card, NOT across two gfx cards. Being there is only ONE MDP per gfx card and The LED ACD is ONLY MDP and the is no way to convert DVI to MDP (only MDP to DVI) there is NO Options for using two ACDs for FCP. Yes it works fine in OSX for normal computing, but not FCP!!! By the way, it works fne in premiere, which pisses me off more tha Adobe can get it right and it's not even their hardware!

Hopefully that is the last time I have to try and explain it.

Sorry but I understand perfectly about DisplayPort & how you need to connect one monitor to each graphics card. What I don't understand is why FCP will not work over two graphics cards for you.

I just tried this on my wife's edit station. The timeline is on one monitor (30" HP LP3065) & I can put the preview onto any of the other three monitors (3 x HP LP2465) & fill the screen. It all works OK. In fact I can open up any other FCP windows on any of the monitors & it all looks OK.

So your assumption that FCP will not work over two graphics cards is wrong. What actually happens when you try this? & please don't just say 'It doesn't work' please describe exactly your problem. I really am trying to understand what your problem is so that I can help but you are not making it easy.

[Harrison Murchison]

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

We can all hope that now Jobs is back he'll start firing some of the Marketing types that pushed the MDP connection format in an attempt to lock Apple fan boys into their display hardware (and ironically has done the exact opposite regarding displays for the reasons you've explained...no way to get two new ACDs running on a 2009 Mac Pro for FCS2!). As I've mentioned, it works a treat with 24 inch Dell displays! (are you listening Apple?)

Then there are the recent Mac Book Pro gaffs like glossy screen only on most types now, no Express Slot 34 for expansion on most...and so on ....but I'll end up ranting again and deleting it all again shortly afterwards! Maybe when Snow Leopard and FCS3 appear the big picture will become apparent for pro applications like video production - but it sure looks fuzzy and ill thought out right now (at least to me!)

Mini Display Port is not for locking anyone in. There are fairly clear reasons why Apple went with DisplayPort technology and because they like their notebooks thin they always go with smaller connectors.

I don't view the Macbook Pro line as a gaffe. If you doing video then you likely want a 1080 HD resolution screen which only the 17" offers. It also offers matte screen options and still has the ExpressCard slot.

So in short the MBP most likely to be used for video work is the one they've delivered the options most requested.

I'm sure whatever issue prevents dual monitor setups using LED ACD will be fixed soon.

[Andrew Waite]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

I just tried this on my wife's edit station. The timeline is on one monitor (30" HP LP3065) & I can put the preview onto any of the other three monitors (3 x HP LP2465) & fill the screen. It all works OK. In fact I can open up any other FCP windows on any of the monitors & it all looks OK.

There is a difference between between FCP sending your preview to a second monitor and you dragging the preview pane to another monitor and stretching it out to fill the screen. Sorry, but they are different.

So before you tell me I'm WRONG again, call Apple yourself, I did, and they confirmed FCP does not recognize additional video cards. OSX does, NOT FCP.

[Glen Elliott]

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Glen: I agree with your comments but allow me to throw one more "ball" into this:
I like having as much real estate as possible for my timeline window (for multiple layers) so my IDEAL build for my next system would have THREE monitors:

Far left: Viewer (small) and Canvas (large)
Middle: Timeline
Far Right: Bins

And this isn't for colour correction, this is just to make sure I can see EVERYTHING at once without having to scroll (a problem I face all the time in my Timeline window...)

So, just because someone wants a large Canvas window doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they are using it for colour correction (although Andrew MAY be looking to do exactly that...)

Sometimes it's just nice to see your canvas window in pixel to pixel resolution.

I see what you mean and agree. I originally worked on a 30" display (2560x1900) but the resolution was so high everything in FCP looked TINY! Even down to the little buttons and sliders. Working in the motion tab was tough. This is coming from someone who has no eye problems (well...not yet). :)

I opted for a large screen with lower res. I know it doesn't make sense because in essence I'm actually losing quite a bit of real-estate. However, it hasn't bothered be because FCP is so scalable I can now work with my timeline set to a notch smaller and have the content/text in the bins be small yet very easily readable (due to the display's size). In other words even though the res is much less FCP is set up to display everything smaller so more fits on screen. I never quite got into the dual monitor approach. It bothers me to have two bezels in the center of my vision- though many people swear by it.

I don't do much pixel for pixel viewing of my edit until the final cut is done and I'm going back a second time to work on the color of the imagery. Though I can see the benefit of doing so even apart from color correction.

It remains to be seen whether Color Correction was one of the reasons for opting for a second LED monitor. Andrew?

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Glen Elliott

I never quite got into the dual monitor approach. It bothers me to have two bezels in the center of my vision- though many people swear by it.

I got started editing on my college's AVID Media Composer so I STARTED with two monitors. When I got my first FCP suite back in late '99, I had just an Apple 15" LCD panel at 1024 x 768. Within months, I splurged on a second video card and the 21" Apple CRT.

Until I get my new Mac Pro (AFTER FCS 3 is announced and Snow Leopard is shipping...), I'm editing on a 20" iMac 2.16GHz with an LG 19" as a second monitor and I'm JUST running out of space. Again, wish I could make my timeline window TALLER for more visible tracks (especially with stereo music beds, v/o audio, wild sound AND sound effects tracks just on the audio side...)

[Glen Elliott]

Yeah I actually have more issues with height rather than width. Sometimes when I'm layering a bunch of tracks I have to expand my timeline which shrinks my canvas & viewer. :(

[William Hohauser]

My monitor space issues are more to do with height, especially with After Effects. I started with two monitors years ago but found the gap between monitors too disturbing. One monitor for the entire FCP desktop works a lot better for me, even on a 15" laptop.

That said the problems with the new Mac Pros and the MiniDisplay port Apple LCD monitors are hopefully fixable with a firmware update or a software patch in FCP. It's hard to imagine why FCP can't do with Apple monitors that it can do with any other monitor setup.

[Chris Luker]

These might help:
Matrox Graphics - Products - Graphics Cards - M-Series - M9138 LP PCIe x16
Matrox Graphics - Products - Graphics Cards - M-Series - M9148 LP PCIe x16
Matrox M9138 and M9148 triple and quadruple mini display port video cards.

[Noah Kadner]

I believe this is fixed in the FCP 6.06 update released yesterday...

Noah

[Mark Holmes]

Originally Posted by Glen Elliott

Andrew- sorry to hear about your predicament. Years ago when I was still on a PC I purchased a Dell 30" display only to realize my graphics card wouldn't support it. I sat with the new computer and display for a week waiting for the new graphics card to come it- it killed me!

Your situation sounds even worse and I empathize with you. Totally Apple's fault for not flagging a faulty config- then again maybe they didn't account for the software being used. Apple should have to take the hardware back. I'd go with a different config- with a single graphics card. At the very least they should let you return one of the LED displays!

HOWEVER....When you explained HOW you were going to be using your dual LED monitors I realized that's not the way you want to go at all. You do NOT want to use a secondary monitor (via a graphics card) to be used to proof your (color) edits.

First of all the colors will NOT be accurate- considering they are affected by your videocard(s) LUT. Second, Apple LED monitors are the least configurable out of all the monitors sold. There are no adjustments on it- only via the color profiler in the OS.

You should go with a single monitor and connect an external display (preferably NOT a computer monitor) via HDMI using a Black Magic Intensity card. That's how I'm set up on my workstation on the left. I have a Samsung 46" 1080p display as my main work area and output my canvas to the 32" monitor to the right (mounted on a cantilever) This 32" Samsung model even has BLUE ONLY which is unheard of for a consumer television. It makes setting the chroma a breeze!

Just some suggestions man. Either way I hope you get it sorted out!!!


PS Sorry for the mess- it's cleaned up since then!
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Laz...reenstudio.jpg

Glen, what Samsung monitor model # is that? I haven't been able to find a consumer monitor with blue only and that may be perfect for my video monitor needs... although a pro-level Panasonic or Sony is what I would prefer - just don't have that much cash.

And do you use it for color correction? If so, how do you find it working for you?

Thanks!