Apple Colour & DSC Labs Camette at DVinfo.net

Justin Carlson · May 13th, 2009, 02:59 PM

I'm sure this is going to be pretty simple for some of you, but I'm looking for a easy explanation or tutorial on how to use the Camette from DSC Labs to colour correct in Apple Color? Camette
Would a quick way of doing it be to zoom into the chart (via geometry) and then go back to the primary room and click auto balance? I'm guessing the exposure would then be off and I'd have to go back and rebalance it.

Luke Garza · May 13th, 2009, 09:12 PM

I stoped by the dmc both at nab and asked them exactly how to use their cards and they gave me a quick tutorial which made sense to me but it was quick. They did say that Chris Hurd was considering doing some sort of lesson on how to use it on here sometime soon. So Chris is this true as i know i would like to see it or learn it. The guy at the both told me that on the jvc dvd (not sure which one) it shows something similiar.

Andrew Kimery · May 14th, 2009, 02:25 PM

The auto balance feature in Color is next to worthless, IMO (it either goes too blue or just completely freaks out in my experience). Basically to use a card like that you'd want the card to be full frame and then you'd use your scopes to dial in the corrects. The red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and yellow patches of color should 'land' in the correct targets on your vectorscope and the black and white patches on the chart should land at 0 and 100 respectively on your waveform monitor.

-Andrew

James Brill · May 14th, 2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Carlson

I'm sure this is going to be pretty simple for some of you, but I'm looking for a easy explanation or tutorial on how to use the Camette from DSC Labs to colour correct in Apple Color? Camette
Would a quick way of doing it be to zoom into the chart (via geometry) and then go back to the primary room and click auto balance? I'm guessing the exposure would then be off and I'd have to go back and rebalance it.

If your going to zoom in with geometry room (my favorite technique) just balance it by hand with your vectorscope. Just bring it to center and your balanced. Same thing goes for the blacks obviously.

Luke Garza · May 15th, 2009, 03:53 AM

I pretty sure i understand what you guys explained. My ? is what do you guys use for a waveform and vectorscope. Do you guys use hardware ones or one on a macbook pro like scopebox or conduit. And last ? is when you do this what exactly does this mean. I mean i have a canon xh a1 and if i use a custom preset to obtain a look would i not ruin it by doing this with the card. And im guessing that when you do this you have proper color levels or does it mean something else.

Andrew Kimery · May 15th, 2009, 03:29 PM

I use hardware scopes (Tektronix WVR 1020 specifically) when I color correct. Obviously charts like these are designed to make sure your colors are 'true' but they can still be useful if you are applying a look because you'll always have a consistent reference to go by. So instead of using the chart to properly white balance the shots (which would destroy your look) you'd use the chart as a reference to make sure your look stayed consistent between shots..

-Andrew

Luke Garza · May 15th, 2009, 11:36 PM

So can you explain why people use these on shots. Like reasons purposes so i can fully understand. I mean these things are not cheap so i fully want to understand how and when to use them before a purchase. Examples would be great also.

Andrew Kimery · May 16th, 2009, 12:10 AM

Like I said, people use them so they can get an accurate, consistent reference for properly setting up a camera (or multiple cameras)during a shoot or for color correction down the road. For example, if you have a multi camera shoot you can have all the cameras side by side shooting the chart and use it to balance all the cameras on the spot (if you have scopes and someone who knows how to read them as well as tweak the cameras accordingly). And once you get to post the chart gives you a common, color accurate element across all three cameras to use as a reference for color correction.

If you are doing a single camera shoot in multiple locations, but need it to have a consistent look, having shot a chip chart at each location will make it easier to grade the footage later. Instead of having to find something you 'think' is white or you 'think' is black in each shot to use as a reference for color balancing you just find the footage of the chart and you know all chips on the chart are perfect (or very nearly perfect) colors.

A chip chart can act as a visual reference for matching colors between shots/cameras in the same way a clap board acts as a reference to sync up audio and video when the sound is recorded separately from the camera.

-Andrew

Luke Garza · May 16th, 2009, 04:39 AM

Ok i think i pretty much get it all and it makes sense and i see how it could be very useful. I do have a few questions though.

1. When you use the chart you say it means colors will be same on different shoots. Does that mean if i shoot in seattle one day then la later that for most part color will be the same or very near same.

2. If you do apply a custom preset or look then use chart you will in essence go back to default proper color or this wrong. This is where i get confused because i know so many people use their on custom presets but then if you did this and used chart would that not negate it. Or does it mean you apply look then see where on scope with chart and make sure next shoot scope and chart match up with the preset you used.

Andrew Kimery · May 16th, 2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Garza

1. When you use the chart you say it means colors will be same on different shoots. Does that mean if i shoot in seattle one day then la later that for most part color will be the same or very near same.

If you use the chart then you'll always have an accurate reference for setting up a camera or grading in post. So, if you shoot w/a chart in downtown Seattle one day and downtown LA the next and you want the footage to match all you have to do is go by the chart because that is an accurate common denominator between the two shots. If you don't have a chart then you have to try and search for common colors between the footage (a red stop sign, a crystal clear blue sky, black asphalt street, a white car, etc.,) to go by. While this is certainly doable (I've never had the luxury of having a chip chart in any of my footage) having a chip chart to reference can speed up the process.

Quote:

Or does it mean you apply look then see where on scope with chart and make sure next shoot scope and chart match up with the preset you used.

Yes, that's what I was going for.

-Andrew

Tim Dashwood · May 16th, 2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Garza

I stoped by the dmc both at nab and asked them exactly how to use their cards and they gave me a quick tutorial which made sense to me but it was quick. They did say that Chris Hurd was considering doing some sort of lesson on how to use it on here sometime soon. So Chris is this true as i know i would like to see it or learn it. The guy at the both told me that on the jvc dvd (not sure which one) it shows something similiar.

I'm going to do a tutorial on how to calibrate a camera to a DSC ChromaDuMonde chart using the latest version of Scopebox. This is what Michael Wiegund from DSC Labs was referring to. Yes it will also appear on Volume II of "The Complete Guide to ProHD" but it will be relevant to all cameras.

I suppose as a part 2 I could also demonstrate how to match cameras in post using the charts.

The DSC tutorial will be available for free in the Videos section of DV Info Net as soon as I figure out the embedding features in WordPress.

May 13th, 2009, 02:59 PM	#1
Justin Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 173	Apple Colour & DSC Labs Camette I'm sure this is going to be pretty simple for some of you, but I'm looking for a easy explanation or tutorial on how to use the Camette from DSC Labs to colour correct in Apple Color? Camette Would a quick way of doing it be to zoom into the chart (via geometry) and then go back to the primary room and click auto balance? I'm guessing the exposure would then be off and I'd have to go back and rebalance it. __________________ Justin http://www.carlsonmedia.ca

May 13th, 2009, 09:12 PM	#2
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	I stoped by the dmc both at nab and asked them exactly how to use their cards and they gave me a quick tutorial which made sense to me but it was quick. They did say that Chris Hurd was considering doing some sort of lesson on how to use it on here sometime soon. So Chris is this true as i know i would like to see it or learn it. The guy at the both told me that on the jvc dvd (not sure which one) it shows something similiar.

May 14th, 2009, 02:25 PM	#3
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	The auto balance feature in Color is next to worthless, IMO (it either goes too blue or just completely freaks out in my experience). Basically to use a card like that you'd want the card to be full frame and then you'd use your scopes to dial in the corrects. The red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and yellow patches of color should 'land' in the correct targets on your vectorscope and the black and white patches on the chart should land at 0 and 100 respectively on your waveform monitor. -Andrew

May 15th, 2009, 03:53 AM	#5
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	I pretty sure i understand what you guys explained. My ? is what do you guys use for a waveform and vectorscope. Do you guys use hardware ones or one on a macbook pro like scopebox or conduit. And last ? is when you do this what exactly does this mean. I mean i have a canon xh a1 and if i use a custom preset to obtain a look would i not ruin it by doing this with the card. And im guessing that when you do this you have proper color levels or does it mean something else.

May 15th, 2009, 03:29 PM	#6
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	I use hardware scopes (Tektronix WVR 1020 specifically) when I color correct. Obviously charts like these are designed to make sure your colors are 'true' but they can still be useful if you are applying a look because you'll always have a consistent reference to go by. So instead of using the chart to properly white balance the shots (which would destroy your look) you'd use the chart as a reference to make sure your look stayed consistent between shots.. -Andrew

May 15th, 2009, 11:36 PM	#7
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	So can you explain why people use these on shots. Like reasons purposes so i can fully understand. I mean these things are not cheap so i fully want to understand how and when to use them before a purchase. Examples would be great also.

May 16th, 2009, 12:10 AM	#8
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Like I said, people use them so they can get an accurate, consistent reference for properly setting up a camera (or multiple cameras)during a shoot or for color correction down the road. For example, if you have a multi camera shoot you can have all the cameras side by side shooting the chart and use it to balance all the cameras on the spot (if you have scopes and someone who knows how to read them as well as tweak the cameras accordingly). And once you get to post the chart gives you a common, color accurate element across all three cameras to use as a reference for color correction. If you are doing a single camera shoot in multiple locations, but need it to have a consistent look, having shot a chip chart at each location will make it easier to grade the footage later. Instead of having to find something you 'think' is white or you 'think' is black in each shot to use as a reference for color balancing you just find the footage of the chart and you know all chips on the chart are perfect (or very nearly perfect) colors. A chip chart can act as a visual reference for matching colors between shots/cameras in the same way a clap board acts as a reference to sync up audio and video when the sound is recorded separately from the camera. -Andrew

May 16th, 2009, 04:39 AM	#9
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	Ok i think i pretty much get it all and it makes sense and i see how it could be very useful. I do have a few questions though. 1. When you use the chart you say it means colors will be same on different shoots. Does that mean if i shoot in seattle one day then la later that for most part color will be the same or very near same. 2. If you do apply a custom preset or look then use chart you will in essence go back to default proper color or this wrong. This is where i get confused because i know so many people use their on custom presets but then if you did this and used chart would that not negate it. Or does it mean you apply look then see where on scope with chart and make sure next shoot scope and chart match up with the preset you used.