Final Cut pro HD Express.Xl1 or HD sony cameras. Confusing results at DVinfo.net

Julio Laffont · May 11th, 2009, 09:33 AM

The confusion came from the fact that I don't know if there is any solution to the problem that when you finish a project in HD or SD cameras in 20 or 25 GB each project you need to burn the project in a 4.2 GB standard to customer deliver (no double layer or blue ray. Not everybody has that equipment) or copy in internet files. That's why I'm confused. How can you go from 25 GB project in FCP pro HD with HD or SD 3 CCD cameras to 4.2 GB DVD and keep the original quality to watch in a 46 inch HD 1080 T.V.?? I know that from the cassette to T.V looks great HD or SD cameras, but doesn't look that good after you compress to Standard 4.2 DVD. I wonder if there is any solution to my questions or i need to take another way. Always happens the same. The cassette is great in 46 inch HD T.V, the DVD..So..so.I don't know what to do..Thanks to read.

Christopher Drews · May 13th, 2009, 10:23 PM

You should always try and edit native and output native. That means, if you shot on HDV and edit in HDV (or a lossless codec) then you should output back on to HDV for mastering purposes. Garbage in, Garbage out. You are always limited to the codec you shoot on.

So- your asking about mastering HD onto current media - keeping in mind that many people don't have Blu-Ray or HD-CAM SR's sitting around. I'd recommend giving your client a Data DVD DL with a rendered QuickTime or other, with their project in their Native Format. That way, you are allowing them to upconvert later if they want to.

So, provide them with SD DVD's in addition to a HD file that has been rendered from your sequence.

Large projects for me necessitate that the client purchase a 1TB drive, where I put all the HD source. The client leaves with this drive when the job is done. They bought it and now they have the HD footage.

Anyways, hope this helps.
-C

Julio Laffont · May 14th, 2009, 06:50 AM

Hi. Thanks for your answer. Basically, I'm making parties, social, events etc with XL1 and Final Cut Pro Express HD (Don't have compressor) and burn in IDVD. Most of the time each project ends in 25 GB and is burned in 4.2 Gb to be watched in 46/52 inch T.V HD 1080. I had a couple of complains that the DVD is not sharp or clear enough in big HD 1080 televisions burned from the IDVD. When I connect the XL1 to the t.v, looks really nice. When I see the DVD created by IDVD, It doesn't. I wonder if there is any setting or something in FCP EXpress or IDVD to improve the quality of a 4.2 GB DVD. That all what I need to know.
Best Regards.

Nick Gordon · May 15th, 2009, 03:41 AM

I might be wrong here - but isn't this simply because DVD is standard definition, and when played on a huge screen is pushing the limits of how big you can make SD images?

I know the screens are HD, but if they only receive SD signals from the DVD player, I don't see that they can magically make them HD.

Richard Alvarez · May 15th, 2009, 08:29 AM

You say you are shooting with an XL1. The XL1 is not an HD camera.

Do you mean XLH1?

Julio Laffont · May 15th, 2009, 08:32 AM

Hi Nick. I know that. One is SD the other HD. The whole idea is not wonder around the obvious difference but get the best results from where I am. Mean XL1, Final CUT Pro HD express (no compressor included) and IDVD to watch in a big 52 inch HD 1080. The confusion comes because I see Hollywood downloading movies with hundreds of gigabites in one SD DVD with crystal clear quality and also I see the results of some video cameras that say"HD" with small lenses and dubious 1080 quality. That's my question and my confusion.

Richard Alvarez · May 15th, 2009, 09:52 AM

Julio,

When the studios 'compress' their movies to go onto an SD disc, they don't dump the file into a compression suite, and let it crank out another file.

They compress the film one scene at a time. Sometimes shot by shot. A technician will set the compression specifically for that shot. Some shots can be compressed a lot. Some will not. It's a very tedious process, and very demanding.

But the end result is going to be much sharper, more efficient that simply dumping a movie into a compression suite and saying "Apply this much compression to the whole movie, all scenes."

(And yes, some compression software is 'variable' - it does a tiny bit of this sort of 'selective' compression - but it's no where near the same)

Julio Laffont · May 15th, 2009, 10:15 AM

Thank you Richard. That part of Sharpening from Hi Tech equipment is more clear to me. Seems to be impossible without their resources, but what I'm asking mostly if someone has good results from Canon XL1 (or similar SD 3 CCD camera), Final Cut Express pro HD (no compressor..Not included) editing ends in 25 GB quicktime files and burned in 4.2 GB IDVD to show in a 52 inch T.V HD 1080..Any good experience or simply it's impossible to have crystal clear image under these conditions?? It's all what I need to know to move forward and think in something else.
Best Regards.

Richard Alvarez · May 15th, 2009, 10:33 AM

No Julio - when you compress a file, you will lose resolution. How you compress it, can help mitigate that fact - but there is bound to be some loss.

If you're going from 25g of data, to 4.5 gigs of data - there will be substantial loss.

Julio Laffont · May 15th, 2009, 10:53 AM

Thank you very much Richard. That's what i needed to know. Now, let's said that instead of Full Quicktime, I export the file in H.264 with 2 levels of sharpening..The file will be much more lighter and clear..But,... can I burn that file in SD IDVD? or I need another burning device..Destination is always the same..customers with standard DVD (very few has Blue Ray) players and HD 52 inch..1080 T.V..What do you think??
Best Regards.

Nick Gordon · May 15th, 2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Laffont

Hi Nick. I know that. One is SD the other HD. The whole idea is not wonder around the obvious difference but get the best results from where I am. Mean XL1, Final CUT Pro HD express (no compressor included) and IDVD to watch in a big 52 inch HD 1080. The confusion comes because I see Hollywood downloading movies with hundreds of gigabites in one SD DVD with crystal clear quality and also I see the results of some video cameras that say"HD" with small lenses and dubious 1080 quality. That's my question and my confusion.

OK. I understand that better now. I think, as others have said, it's the difference between doing things 'by hand' as opposed to allowing the software to do it.

May 11th, 2009, 09:33 AM	#1
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Final Cut pro HD Express.Xl1 or HD sony cameras. Confusing results The confusion came from the fact that I don't know if there is any solution to the problem that when you finish a project in HD or SD cameras in 20 or 25 GB each project you need to burn the project in a 4.2 GB standard to customer deliver (no double layer or blue ray. Not everybody has that equipment) or copy in internet files. That's why I'm confused. How can you go from 25 GB project in FCP pro HD with HD or SD 3 CCD cameras to 4.2 GB DVD and keep the original quality to watch in a 46 inch HD 1080 T.V.?? I know that from the cassette to T.V looks great HD or SD cameras, but doesn't look that good after you compress to Standard 4.2 DVD. I wonder if there is any solution to my questions or i need to take another way. Always happens the same. The cassette is great in 46 inch HD T.V, the DVD..So..so.I don't know what to do..Thanks to read.

May 14th, 2009, 06:50 AM	#3
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Final Cut pro HD Express with Xl1 and IDVD . Confusing results Hi. Thanks for your answer. Basically, I'm making parties, social, events etc with XL1 and Final Cut Pro Express HD (Don't have compressor) and burn in IDVD. Most of the time each project ends in 25 GB and is burned in 4.2 Gb to be watched in 46/52 inch T.V HD 1080. I had a couple of complains that the DVD is not sharp or clear enough in big HD 1080 televisions burned from the IDVD. When I connect the XL1 to the t.v, looks really nice. When I see the DVD created by IDVD, It doesn't. I wonder if there is any setting or something in FCP EXpress or IDVD to improve the quality of a 4.2 GB DVD. That all what I need to know. Best Regards.

May 15th, 2009, 08:32 AM	#6
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Final Cut pro HD Express.Xl1 or HD sony/other HD cameras. Confusing results Hi Nick. I know that. One is SD the other HD. The whole idea is not wonder around the obvious difference but get the best results from where I am. Mean XL1, Final CUT Pro HD express (no compressor included) and IDVD to watch in a big 52 inch HD 1080. The confusion comes because I see Hollywood downloading movies with hundreds of gigabites in one SD DVD with crystal clear quality and also I see the results of some video cameras that say"HD" with small lenses and dubious 1080 quality. That's my question and my confusion.

May 15th, 2009, 10:15 AM	#8
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Final Cut pro HD Express.Xl1 or HD sony cameras. Confusing results Thank you Richard. That part of Sharpening from Hi Tech equipment is more clear to me. Seems to be impossible without their resources, but what I'm asking mostly if someone has good results from Canon XL1 (or similar SD 3 CCD camera), Final Cut Express pro HD (no compressor..Not included) editing ends in 25 GB quicktime files and burned in 4.2 GB IDVD to show in a 52 inch T.V HD 1080..Any good experience or simply it's impossible to have crystal clear image under these conditions?? It's all what I need to know to move forward and think in something else. Best Regards.

May 15th, 2009, 10:53 AM	#10
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Final Cut pro HD Express.Xl1 or HD sony cameras. Confusing results Thank you very much Richard. That's what i needed to know. Now, let's said that instead of Full Quicktime, I export the file in H.264 with 2 levels of sharpening..The file will be much more lighter and clear..But,... can I burn that file in SD IDVD? or I need another burning device..Destination is always the same..customers with standard DVD (very few has Blue Ray) players and HD 52 inch..1080 T.V..What do you think?? Best Regards.

May 13th, 2009, 10:23 PM	#2
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	You should always try and edit native and output native. That means, if you shot on HDV and edit in HDV (or a lossless codec) then you should output back on to HDV for mastering purposes. Garbage in, Garbage out. You are always limited to the codec you shoot on. So- your asking about mastering HD onto current media - keeping in mind that many people don't have Blu-Ray or HD-CAM SR's sitting around. I'd recommend giving your client a Data DVD DL with a rendered QuickTime or other, with their project in their Native Format. That way, you are allowing them to upconvert later if they want to. So, provide them with SD DVD's in addition to a HD file that has been rendered from your sequence. Large projects for me necessitate that the client purchase a 1TB drive, where I put all the HD source. The client leaves with this drive when the job is done. They bought it and now they have the HD footage. Anyways, hope this helps. -C

May 15th, 2009, 03:41 AM	#4
Nick Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 166	I might be wrong here - but isn't this simply because DVD is standard definition, and when played on a huge screen is pushing the limits of how big you can make SD images? I know the screens are HD, but if they only receive SD signals from the DVD player, I don't see that they can magically make them HD.

May 15th, 2009, 08:29 AM	#5
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	You say you are shooting with an XL1. The XL1 is not an HD camera. Do you mean XLH1?

May 15th, 2009, 09:52 AM	#7
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Julio, When the studios 'compress' their movies to go onto an SD disc, they don't dump the file into a compression suite, and let it crank out another file. They compress the film one scene at a time. Sometimes shot by shot. A technician will set the compression specifically for that shot. Some shots can be compressed a lot. Some will not. It's a very tedious process, and very demanding. But the end result is going to be much sharper, more efficient that simply dumping a movie into a compression suite and saying "Apply this much compression to the whole movie, all scenes." (And yes, some compression software is 'variable' - it does a tiny bit of this sort of 'selective' compression - but it's no where near the same)

May 15th, 2009, 10:33 AM	#9
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	No Julio - when you compress a file, you will lose resolution. How you compress it, can help mitigate that fact - but there is bound to be some loss. If you're going from 25g of data, to 4.5 gigs of data - there will be substantial loss.