Upgrading to Panther? at DVinfo.net

Justin Morgan · January 9th, 2004, 06:17 AM

Is it really worth upgrading to 10.3? I'm currently running 10.2.8. I've read a few things about applications not runnning or losing all files on the hard disk. Is it really worth the risk of installing - As I'm mainly just using Final Cut is running 10.3 really that much better than 10.2.8?

Ted Springer · January 9th, 2004, 08:57 AM

I use 10.2.8 at home and 10.3.2 at work, both with Final Cut Pro 4.x. 10.2.8 is hands down the better OS, especially when it comes to networking. 10.3.2 is sort of flakey. For some reason I also find it easier to do meaningless tasks in the Finder easier in 10.2.8, like select all the files in a folder in the multi-column view with my mouse. The Exposé thing in 10.3.2 is kind of cool, though. I'll post more examples if I run across them today (I am at home now), as I know there are more issues.

Justin Morgan · January 10th, 2004, 05:38 AM

So, is the reason nobody has posted views on this due to the fact that everyone agrees with Ted that 10.3 is less a Panther and more a (overpriced) Lame Duck.

Jeff Donald · January 10th, 2004, 06:14 AM

No, I didn't post because the merits of Panther have been discussed in the past. The biggest improvements from Panther are noticed on older Macs and the new G5's. Is it mandatory to upgrade? No, but there are many benefits, including improved FireWire drivers, that may benefit your editing.

Rick Foxx · January 10th, 2004, 10:31 AM

Over the Christmas break, I upgraded one of my FCP workstations to Panther. First off, I'm amazed at how much more real-time I am getting. Everything from rendering times to MPEG2 encode times are faster.

The second major improvement is that I have completed 2 projects from capture all the way to DVD authoring. I have not had so much as a hickup. No crashes, no unexpected quits, no spinning beachballs of death. That right there is worth the price of admission.

Rick

Dan Brown · January 10th, 2004, 05:13 PM

I just bought an eMac with Panther. I transfered all my old stuff, it went flawlessly. iMovie runs real fast, I imported a bunch of clips and started chopping them up. I havend burned a DVD yet, but I will withhin the week, just to check it out. I'm thinking of upgrading my iMac DV+SE (500Mhz G3) from OS 9 to Panther and networking them together.

Jeff Donald · January 10th, 2004, 06:05 PM

Dan, you'll see a big improvement in the iMac. I've upgraded several iMacs with Panther and the speed increases I've seen have been very noticeable. It is also easier to network under OS X than 9.

Ted Springer · January 11th, 2004, 01:38 AM

So y'all think that OS X (10.3) would run faster than OS 9 on any given G3? I've always found OS X slower on any Mac than OS 9 (overall OS responsiveness, not rendering and the like). It just seems to me like OS X needs more horsepower due to what it is. Kind of like Mac OS 9 needs more horsepower than the first incarnation of DOS.

John Locke · January 11th, 2004, 02:36 AM

Not the case for me, Ted. Panther and FCP4 blaze compared to previous setups. I'm amazed at the speed of rendering times now.

Jeff Donald · January 11th, 2004, 05:56 AM

A few limited aspects of OS 9 and iMacs are faster. But for most users of G3 machines the few faster performance aspects aren't very important. For example reboot/start up times are usually faster with OS 9. My son and my dad (both on iMacs) don't care how fast their iMacs start. Windows open slightly faster and some applications launch faster under OS 9, again my dad and son really don't seem to notice and/or care. What they do notice is a much better, safer memory management system. Of course they don't realize it, but the better MMU allows them to have more window open and programs running without crashing. They both think printing is much faster. In OS 9 you would sometimes getting the spinning ball for minutes before it would print. Why? Probably all the memory was gone and it took forever to spool the document. They both notice that their computers don't crash any more. I haven't gotten one call from my dad on his machine locking up since installing Panther. On OS 9 it was a weekly event to have it freeze during his use. It was very annoying to lose documents etc.

So, for high performance users, don't use a G3. But the expectations of low end users (internet, word processing, printing, etc.) are generally exceeded with Panther and G3 machines.

Boyd Ostroff · January 11th, 2004, 09:00 AM

That's really fascinating guys, I'm surprised to hear this about the G3 iMacs. We have a bunch of them at work, so maybe it's worth considering an upgrade? But machines of that vintage typically come up short on memory and hard drive as compared to newer models. For example, I think most of our vintage iMacs have 96 MB or 128 MB of RAM and hard drives in the 3 to 5 GB range with processors running at 233 or 333 mhz IIRC. Surely that isn't enough to support Panther, is it? And it would really be throwing money down a hole to start upgrading these antiques, although I can see that it might make sense if you just have one machine at home.

Jeff Donald · January 11th, 2004, 09:24 AM

Minimum recommended ram for Jaguar was 256mb, Panther is 128mb. The 333MHz models used to have a very affordable upgrade to G4's, but NewTech went out of business. However, hard drives can be upgrade for very little. CompUSA and other discounters regularly have 40, 60 and 80 Gb drives for $40 to $50 after rebates.

Ted Springer · January 11th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Interesting. My dad has the first ever model iMac, and I don't think that can run OS X. I am trying to persuade him into buying a current model iMac like I was able to do with my mom. My mom's iMac ran a little bit slow until I tripled its memory this Christmas. It's like a whole new machine. Can never have enough RAM.

Question: If my dad got a new iMac, could 10.3 network to OS 9 to transfer all of his stuff via a cat-5e crossover cable?

Jeff Donald · January 11th, 2004, 05:13 PM

Yes, your dad should have no problem using a crossover to network. Mixed platforms can be a problem, but he should be fine. Your dad's iMac will indeed run Panther as long as he has 128mb of ram and 2gb of disk space for the install.

Justin Morgan · January 12th, 2004, 03:32 AM

Okay, I'm sold so far but just to clarify, I'm on a G4 i-mac with 10.2.8 - so I should notice significant improvement on rendering times in Final Cut etc. And when I (if) I install I should select 'Archive and Clean Install' to update the system and keep all my files, applications and preferences etc.

Cheers

January 9th, 2004, 06:17 AM	#1
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Upgrading to Panther? Is it really worth upgrading to 10.3? I'm currently running 10.2.8. I've read a few things about applications not runnning or losing all files on the hard disk. Is it really worth the risk of installing - As I'm mainly just using Final Cut is running 10.3 really that much better than 10.2.8?

January 10th, 2004, 06:14 AM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	No, I didn't post because the merits of Panther have been discussed in the past. The biggest improvements from Panther are noticed on older Macs and the new G5's. Is it mandatory to upgrade? No, but there are many benefits, including improved FireWire drivers, that may benefit your editing. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 10th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#5
Rick Foxx Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tooele, UT Posts: 78	Over the Christmas break, I upgraded one of my FCP workstations to Panther. First off, I'm amazed at how much more real-time I am getting. Everything from rendering times to MPEG2 encode times are faster. The second major improvement is that I have completed 2 projects from capture all the way to DVD authoring. I have not had so much as a hickup. No crashes, no unexpected quits, no spinning beachballs of death. That right there is worth the price of admission. Rick __________________ There is no problem so large that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.

January 10th, 2004, 05:13 PM	#6
Dan Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 235	I just bought an eMac with Panther. I transfered all my old stuff, it went flawlessly. iMovie runs real fast, I imported a bunch of clips and started chopping them up. I havend burned a DVD yet, but I will withhin the week, just to check it out. I'm thinking of upgrading my iMac DV+SE (500Mhz G3) from OS 9 to Panther and networking them together. __________________ dB

January 10th, 2004, 06:05 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Dan, you'll see a big improvement in the iMac. I've upgraded several iMacs with Panther and the speed increases I've seen have been very noticeable. It is also easier to network under OS X than 9. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 9th, 2004, 08:57 AM	#2
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	I use 10.2.8 at home and 10.3.2 at work, both with Final Cut Pro 4.x. 10.2.8 is hands down the better OS, especially when it comes to networking. 10.3.2 is sort of flakey. For some reason I also find it easier to do meaningless tasks in the Finder easier in 10.2.8, like select all the files in a folder in the multi-column view with my mouse. The Exposé thing in 10.3.2 is kind of cool, though. I'll post more examples if I run across them today (I am at home now), as I know there are more issues.

January 10th, 2004, 05:38 AM	#3
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	So, is the reason nobody has posted views on this due to the fact that everyone agrees with Ted that 10.3 is less a Panther and more a (overpriced) Lame Duck.

January 11th, 2004, 01:38 AM	#8
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	So y'all think that OS X (10.3) would run faster than OS 9 on any given G3? I've always found OS X slower on any Mac than OS 9 (overall OS responsiveness, not rendering and the like). It just seems to me like OS X needs more horsepower due to what it is. Kind of like Mac OS 9 needs more horsepower than the first incarnation of DOS.

January 11th, 2004, 02:36 AM	#9
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Not the case for me, Ted. Panther and FCP4 blaze compared to previous setups. I'm amazed at the speed of rendering times now. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

January 11th, 2004, 05:56 AM	#10
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	A few limited aspects of OS 9 and iMacs are faster. But for most users of G3 machines the few faster performance aspects aren't very important. For example reboot/start up times are usually faster with OS 9. My son and my dad (both on iMacs) don't care how fast their iMacs start. Windows open slightly faster and some applications launch faster under OS 9, again my dad and son really don't seem to notice and/or care. What they do notice is a much better, safer memory management system. Of course they don't realize it, but the better MMU allows them to have more window open and programs running without crashing. They both think printing is much faster. In OS 9 you would sometimes getting the spinning ball for minutes before it would print. Why? Probably all the memory was gone and it took forever to spool the document. They both notice that their computers don't crash any more. I haven't gotten one call from my dad on his machine locking up since installing Panther. On OS 9 it was a weekly event to have it freeze during his use. It was very annoying to lose documents etc. So, for high performance users, don't use a G3. But the expectations of low end users (internet, word processing, printing, etc.) are generally exceeded with Panther and G3 machines. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 11th, 2004, 09:00 AM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	That's really fascinating guys, I'm surprised to hear this about the G3 iMacs. We have a bunch of them at work, so maybe it's worth considering an upgrade? But machines of that vintage typically come up short on memory and hard drive as compared to newer models. For example, I think most of our vintage iMacs have 96 MB or 128 MB of RAM and hard drives in the 3 to 5 GB range with processors running at 233 or 333 mhz IIRC. Surely that isn't enough to support Panther, is it? And it would really be throwing money down a hole to start upgrading these antiques, although I can see that it might make sense if you just have one machine at home.

January 11th, 2004, 09:24 AM	#12
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Minimum recommended ram for Jaguar was 256mb, Panther is 128mb. The 333MHz models used to have a very affordable upgrade to G4's, but NewTech went out of business. However, hard drives can be upgrade for very little. CompUSA and other discounters regularly have 40, 60 and 80 Gb drives for $40 to $50 after rebates. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 11th, 2004, 02:18 PM	#13
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Interesting. My dad has the first ever model iMac, and I don't think that can run OS X. I am trying to persuade him into buying a current model iMac like I was able to do with my mom. My mom's iMac ran a little bit slow until I tripled its memory this Christmas. It's like a whole new machine. Can never have enough RAM. Question: If my dad got a new iMac, could 10.3 network to OS 9 to transfer all of his stuff via a cat-5e crossover cable?

January 11th, 2004, 05:13 PM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yes, your dad should have no problem using a crossover to network. Mixed platforms can be a problem, but he should be fine. Your dad's iMac will indeed run Panther as long as he has 128mb of ram and 2gb of disk space for the install. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 12th, 2004, 03:32 AM	#15
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Okay, I'm sold so far but just to clarify, I'm on a G4 i-mac with 10.2.8 - so I should notice significant improvement on rendering times in Final Cut etc. And when I (if) I install I should select 'Archive and Clean Install' to update the system and keep all my files, applications and preferences etc. Cheers