3:2 Pulldown BROKEN in FCP 4!!! at DVinfo.net

Ted Springer · December 18th, 2003, 09:37 PM

I have been editing a flick in 24fps for quite some time, and have had the 3:2:3:2 pulldown enabled and all looked fine when played back on the timeline. Now only the ultra crappy (an unneccesary) 2:4:4:4 mode is available, no matter what! As a result, onscreen video is ultra jerky and completely unacceptable. The only changes that were made were to update to Quicktime 6.4 and Final Cut Pro 4.1. I can't think of a reason why Apple would remove this feature, unless they were seriously hyper-retarded. I checked all of my system, user and project settings. One even allows me to choose 3:2:3:2 pulldown, but it does not effect the timeline. I tried starting a new project and I still can't get it to work right. This is absolutely VITAL that this works!

Any suggestions?

Edit: Yes, I deleted the preferences. Something is seriously wrong.

Ken Tanaka · December 18th, 2003, 10:40 PM

Ted,
Why is it that every time you post a message you're in the midst of some calamitous circumstance with FCP?!

I do not know what's wrong now. But off-hand, I'd recommend trying to roll back to Quicktime Pro 6.3. NEVER, ever update Quicktime if you are a FCP user until the path seems clear. That's usually at least 3-6 weeks after an update is released. In any case, you should never update or change any of your software in the middle of a project unless you are certain that the change is absolutely necessary for completing the project.

Ted Springer · December 18th, 2003, 10:47 PM

I waited a few months before updating to 6.4. Can anyone else with FCP 4.1 create a sequence (no clips are necessary), change the sequence settings to 23.98 fps (you may have to double-click on the sequence after doing this to get the timeeline to reappear), and then go to the RT tab on the time line and see what pulldown options you have? At least that way I'll know if it's just me.

As far as FCP goes, it seems to be bugware and that's why I am always having problems with it. Face it, Apple isn't as good as they used to be in the programming department. Your super strong warnings are very evident that Apple makes tons of mistakes when programming updates and the like and that they do not know what they are doing. Also I can't go back to Quicktime 6.3 because I am using Final Cut Pro 4.1. I'd have to reinstall Final Cut 4.0 and there is no way I can update to FCP 4.0.2. The updater would take me straight to 4.1.1.

Ken Tanaka · December 18th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Yes, I can create such a sequence with FCP 4.1 and QT 6.4, Ted.

[edit] Mine shows 2:2:2:4 by default.

Jeff Donald · December 19th, 2003, 07:54 AM

Ted, try updating to QT 6.5, at this point it can't hurt.

Quote:

As far as FCP goes, it seems to be bugware and that's why I am always having problems with it. Face it, Apple isn't as good as they used to be in the programming department. Your super strong warnings are very evident that Apple makes tons of mistakes when programming updates and the like and that they do not know what they are doing.

Writing state of the art software is not a easy task. Go on a visit to Avid's forums and you'll see that high end software is not without it's problems.

Ted Springer · December 19th, 2003, 08:32 AM

6.5 didn't help, neither did FCP 4.1.1. Is there a "best way" to uninstall FCP so I can try reinstalling it? Is it as simple as "drag the folder to the trash"?

Ted Springer · December 19th, 2003, 10:33 AM

I am at work right now with FCP 4.1 and OS X 10.3.2. I cannot get 3:2 here either. Seems to be an issue with FCP 4.1. No matter what it says in System Settings, (where you CAN select 3:2:3:2, though it has no effect) you can only select 2:2:2:4 from the RT tab on the timeline. Ken, are you sure you could see 3:2:3:2 on the RT tab of the timeline? The tab in the system settings is useless.

When will Apple fix this? I wonder what features they'll take out next?

Ken Tanaka · December 19th, 2003, 12:28 PM

No, mine shows 2:2:2:4 also.

Ted Springer · December 19th, 2003, 06:41 PM

Yay! Re-installing 4.0 worked. I didn't have to downgrade Quicktime. I can't recall any advantages that 4.1 had over 4.0, but it definitely has some disadvantages. When the next upgrade comes out, I'll probably ask you guys if this feature is in there, and for a screen shot. :)

Though to be quite honest, I'm not sure if it was 4.1 or the FCP Render Plug In that was also updated. I don't need the render plug in with 4.0 and QT 6.5, as I tested and non-DV files still work well.

PS - Anyone know where I can download the FCP 4.0.2 installer?

Jeff Donald · December 19th, 2003, 07:10 PM

Check Apple's site, but as far as I know FCP 4.0.2 is no longer available. I always save a copy of the files I install for instances like this. However, I don't have FCP 4 so I've not downloaded these files. Sorry.

Sharon Fraats · December 20th, 2003, 01:23 AM

Mr. Ken Tanaka,

Thank you very much for your advice to loading newer software updates, as you should wait for the noise from those who do it first. This is sound advice and I wanted to let you know this.

Thank you very much.

Mark Austin · December 20th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Was designed to run "optimized" on a G5 (and Panther), if you don't use a G5 then you probably don't need it. I have been using it with no problems on a G4 Dualie but I haven't tried the 2:3:3:2 pulldown yet. I guess I'd better get a G5 before my DVX100a gets here :-)

I think the latest versions are the most stable I have used to date.

My Pro Tools 6.2 is a turd though, it sometimes produces digital noise so loud that it will blow up my system one day, and that's the third patch in the last two months..it's still not fixed (oh BTY Avid owns Digi)

my2cents

Mark

Ted Springer · December 20th, 2003, 11:34 AM

Honestly people, how could I have ever known that 3:2:3:2 pulldown was missing? This is a very serious question I am asking of you guys. I guarantee that no one on these forums besides me would have noticed. And I was right. No one did. FCP 4.1 is not exactly brand new and there have been no negative comments about it since the FCP Quicktime render plug in was updated. How long am I supposed to wait? There were no posts about it on the Apple Discussion Forums until I made a post, and I had one user who noticed the same thing but thought it was a fluke.

I think Apple should beta test their software with people who look for the little things like that. I guarantee you if I had beta tested that update, I would have noticed quickly and they would have (hopefully) fixed it.

So again I ask (and hope to get an answer): How am I supposed to know whether each and every single feature, big and small, still works with each update when most users don't even use those features and would never comment? Sometimes you just have to try the update yourself.

Jeff Donald · December 20th, 2003, 11:51 AM

Your right, Ted. The only way to know for sure is to try the features yourself. You can't wait for someone else or any manufacture to catch every defect. Apple has forms on their site to report bugs in their software. Here's the link for FCP.

I'm a little surprised that no one on the Apple discussions had noticed. Perhaps because productions slow down this time of year. The school I teach at is closed for the holidays, but I'll check our version of FCP 4.1 to see if all the pull downs are active.

There's an MPEG2 component update available too, Ted.

Ted Springer · December 20th, 2003, 12:23 PM

That link doesn't seem to work, unfortunately. I'd definitely like to let Apple know.

Yeah I had the MPEG 2 component, but that's something that doesn't mean too much to me since I rarely need to play MPEG-2's via Quicktime. But I did grab the latest security update that was released a couple of hours ago.

December 18th, 2003, 09:37 PM	#1
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	3:2 Pulldown BROKEN in FCP 4! I have been editing a flick in 24fps for quite some time, and have had the 3:2:3:2 pulldown enabled and all looked fine when played back on the timeline. Now only the ultra crappy (an unneccesary) 2:4:4:4 mode is available, no matter what! As a result, onscreen video is ultra jerky and completely unacceptable. The only changes that were made were to update to Quicktime 6.4 and Final Cut Pro 4.1. I can't think of a reason why Apple would remove this feature, unless they were seriously hyper-retarded. I checked all of my system, user and project settings. One even allows me to choose 3:2:3:2 pulldown, but it does not effect the timeline. I tried starting a new project and I still can't get it to work right. This is absolutely VITAL that this works! Any suggestions? Edit: Yes, I deleted the preferences. Something is seriously wrong.

December 18th, 2003, 10:40 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Ted, Why is it that every time you post a message you're in the midst of some calamitous circumstance with FCP?! I do not know what's wrong now. But off-hand, I'd recommend trying to roll back to Quicktime Pro 6.3. NEVER, ever update Quicktime if you are a FCP user until the path seems clear. That's usually at least 3-6 weeks after an update is released. In any case, you should never update or change any of your software in the middle of a project unless you are certain that the change is absolutely necessary for completing the project. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 18th, 2003, 11:09 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Yes, I can create such a sequence with FCP 4.1 and QT 6.4, Ted. [edit] Mine shows 2:2:2:4 by default. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 19th, 2003, 12:28 PM	#8
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	No, mine shows 2:2:2:4 also. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 19th, 2003, 07:10 PM	#10
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Check Apple's site, but as far as I know FCP 4.0.2 is no longer available. I always save a copy of the files I install for instances like this. However, I don't have FCP 4 so I've not downloaded these files. Sorry. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 18th, 2003, 10:47 PM	#3
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	I waited a few months before updating to 6.4. Can anyone else with FCP 4.1 create a sequence (no clips are necessary), change the sequence settings to 23.98 fps (you may have to double-click on the sequence after doing this to get the timeeline to reappear), and then go to the RT tab on the time line and see what pulldown options you have? At least that way I'll know if it's just me. As far as FCP goes, it seems to be bugware and that's why I am always having problems with it. Face it, Apple isn't as good as they used to be in the programming department. Your super strong warnings are very evident that Apple makes tons of mistakes when programming updates and the like and that they do not know what they are doing. Also I can't go back to Quicktime 6.3 because I am using Final Cut Pro 4.1. I'd have to reinstall Final Cut 4.0 and there is no way I can update to FCP 4.0.2. The updater would take me straight to 4.1.1.

December 19th, 2003, 08:32 AM	#6
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	6.5 didn't help, neither did FCP 4.1.1. Is there a "best way" to uninstall FCP so I can try reinstalling it? Is it as simple as "drag the folder to the trash"?

December 19th, 2003, 10:33 AM	#7
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	I am at work right now with FCP 4.1 and OS X 10.3.2. I cannot get 3:2 here either. Seems to be an issue with FCP 4.1. No matter what it says in System Settings, (where you CAN select 3:2:3:2, though it has no effect) you can only select 2:2:2:4 from the RT tab on the timeline. Ken, are you sure you could see 3:2:3:2 on the RT tab of the timeline? The tab in the system settings is useless. When will Apple fix this? I wonder what features they'll take out next?

December 19th, 2003, 06:41 PM	#9
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Yay! Re-installing 4.0 worked. I didn't have to downgrade Quicktime. I can't recall any advantages that 4.1 had over 4.0, but it definitely has some disadvantages. When the next upgrade comes out, I'll probably ask you guys if this feature is in there, and for a screen shot. :) Though to be quite honest, I'm not sure if it was 4.1 or the FCP Render Plug In that was also updated. I don't need the render plug in with 4.0 and QT 6.5, as I tested and non-DV files still work well. PS - Anyone know where I can download the FCP 4.0.2 installer?

December 20th, 2003, 01:23 AM	#11
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Mr. Ken Tanaka, Thank you very much for your advice to loading newer software updates, as you should wait for the noise from those who do it first. This is sound advice and I wanted to let you know this. Thank you very much.

December 20th, 2003, 01:53 AM	#12
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	FCP 4.1 Was designed to run "optimized" on a G5 (and Panther), if you don't use a G5 then you probably don't need it. I have been using it with no problems on a G4 Dualie but I haven't tried the 2:3:3:2 pulldown yet. I guess I'd better get a G5 before my DVX100a gets here :-) I think the latest versions are the most stable I have used to date. My Pro Tools 6.2 is a turd though, it sometimes produces digital noise so loud that it will blow up my system one day, and that's the third patch in the last two months..it's still not fixed (oh BTY Avid owns Digi) my2cents Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

December 20th, 2003, 11:34 AM	#13
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	Dead Serious Question Here. Honestly people, how could I have ever known that 3:2:3:2 pulldown was missing? This is a very serious question I am asking of you guys. I guarantee that no one on these forums besides me would have noticed. And I was right. No one did. FCP 4.1 is not exactly brand new and there have been no negative comments about it since the FCP Quicktime render plug in was updated. How long am I supposed to wait? There were no posts about it on the Apple Discussion Forums until I made a post, and I had one user who noticed the same thing but thought it was a fluke. I think Apple should beta test their software with people who look for the little things like that. I guarantee you if I had beta tested that update, I would have noticed quickly and they would have (hopefully) fixed it. So again I ask (and hope to get an answer): How am I supposed to know whether each and every single feature, big and small, still works with each update when most users don't even use those features and would never comment? Sometimes you just have to try the update yourself.

December 20th, 2003, 11:51 AM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Your right, Ted. The only way to know for sure is to try the features yourself. You can't wait for someone else or any manufacture to catch every defect. Apple has forms on their site to report bugs in their software. Here's the link for FCP. I'm a little surprised that no one on the Apple discussions had noticed. Perhaps because productions slow down this time of year. The school I teach at is closed for the holidays, but I'll check our version of FCP 4.1 to see if all the pull downs are active. There's an MPEG2 component update available too, Ted. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 20th, 2003, 12:23 PM	#15
Ted Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 328	That link doesn't seem to work, unfortunately. I'd definitely like to let Apple know. Yeah I had the MPEG 2 component, but that's something that doesn't mean too much to me since I rarely need to play MPEG-2's via Quicktime. But I did grab the latest security update that was released a couple of hours ago.