NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2003

Nik Hanselmann · August 23rd, 2003, 12:21 PM

Hrmm, thanks for the input guys. I think I will go with the G5 w/ 17" Cinema Display. A CRT would be a good solution except that I may take this machine to college and a 60lb monitor may be a bit much for a tiny dorm desk :)

Boyd Ostroff · August 23rd, 2003, 02:00 PM

I agree with Jaime, consider a CRT if budget is tight. I'm still using my 4 year old 21" Apple Studio Display (really a flat screen trinitron). It looks good at 1600x1200 and holds the timeline, viewer, canvas and palettes fine. I also have a 15" Samsung LCD hooked up to a Radeon PCI graphics card, which also supports a 3rd screen if needed (either s-video, VGA or DVI). My LCD panel is 1024x768 and I use it mainly for the browser, sometimes the canvas.

I also do lots of CAD, image editing and 3d modeling. The big screen spoils you, no way I would ever settle for something less than 1600x1200 in the future :-)

I also agree with the others about the G5 - get it, especially if it has to last for a few years. But this all really depends on individual needs. Actually I just got a second G4 (single 1.25G). I'm in the middle of some projects and not interested in switching to OSX yet and upgrading all my applications. This G4 still boots OS9 and just sits here and renders 3d 24/7 now. But probably next spring I'll think about moving to the G5.

Only one other thing to consider... the G5 is an unknown, not enough out there yet to start hearing about the problems, and the real 64 bit operating system isn't released. I think you need to be prepared to be patient and deal with some odd bugs as an early adopter. And also realize that in a year or so they will be replaced with new models that are cheaper, faster and less buggy. Or at least that has been the case with every other product that Apple has made. I got one of the first generation top of the line power macs, the 8100. It was impressive for its day, but became a dog really quickly (anybody else remember what a nightmare it was to open that case and install RAM? ;-)

Not trying to scare you away, but just go into it with eyes wide open... there's a price to pay for leading the pack...

Gary Chavez · August 25th, 2003, 08:28 AM

I am begining to archive my FCP3 projects to a Beta Master tape.
My beta deck is an Sony 1800.

Being an 1800, I am unable to set an in and out point for insert editing. This is how we kept archive tapes at every newsroom i ever worked at. this method kept one timecode for the entire tape.

So far, i must crash edit (hit play and record) which assemble edits, when i want to archive a project. The end result of this method will be an archive tape with tons of different time codes, creating a nightmare if/when i need to dub from this master tape.

Do you guys know a way to solve this?
thanks

Gary Chavez · August 25th, 2003, 08:29 AM

sorry for the subject line, should read simply, output.

Jeff Donald · August 25th, 2003, 09:59 AM

What are you wanting to do? Insert edit with an 1800? Stripe the tape and it can be done from the front panel. Or buy a serial card and cable for the G4 and FCP will control the deck and do the edits, inserts etc. for you. GeeThree makes the Stealth serial card and you'll need a good serial cable. Total cost, under $100.

Gary Chavez · August 25th, 2003, 10:21 AM

hey Jeff,

not sure what you by stripe the tape, you mean lay black on the tape?

the front controls of the UVW 1800 panel only allow for me to re-set timecode. cant enter specific points.

went to the link you provided but its chinese to me. how does this device allow me to set in-out points on the beta deck?

I have a shuttle Pro control device, but i cant set edit points with it.

lastly, i would like to archive these projects from quick time.
using super good compression (BLACKMAGIC 10 bit) for ultimate quality, it still takes up the same amount of tape space right?
however, i cant figure how to play my quick time movies outside of FPC3 so that the beta deck sees them.

again, thanks for your patience.

Jeff Donald · August 25th, 2003, 10:41 AM

It gives your Mac RS-422 serial control. Install the card, plug serial cable in Sony 1800 and the other end into Mac, open FCP 3 or 4 and set for serial control of Sony 1800. FCP will now be able to set in and out edit points and control the deck.

Stripe a tape is the same as black. Shuttle Pro is not an edit controller and RS-422 is USB compatible. You'll need the Stealth Serial card. Then, the Shuttle Pro can shuttle the deck, set ins and outs etc.

If all your doing is DV then why convert to BlackMagic 10 bit video? If you are doing uncompressed, then it will be worth it. Beta deck only understands NTSC video, not computer Codecs or compression algorithms. You must pick an NTSC video format, not QuickTime. You'll need some kind of transcoder, because 1800 will not accept FireWire, only composite (including S-Video) and component. Component will yield higher quality Beta SP footage, but the transcoder will be more costly.

John Massie · August 25th, 2003, 04:12 PM

Hello All,

I just changed churches, and now I am in a church that uses Final Cut Pro 3 for all their editing. I am trying to quickly learn FCP so I can start editing a lot more efficiently. No one at the church knows how to use FCP, so I am going to have to learn it on my own. Unfortunately, I have one setback. I don't have a Mac at home, and I live about 40mins. from my church. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good FREE sites that I could pick up some FCP training. I have already reserved some books from the library, but who knows when they will ever come in...

Thanks in Advance,
John C. Massie
Crossroads Church
Video Director

Ken Tanaka · August 25th, 2003, 04:34 PM

Hi John,
I don't know of any Web site that offers complete soup-to-nuts basic training for FCP.

The LA Final Cut Pro users group site offers some tutorials. http://www.lafcpug.org/

DVCreators offers various classes and training materials, but they're not free.

Beyond that your best bet will be books. Our "Read About It" forum features several good books.

Trent O Connor · August 27th, 2003, 08:36 AM

Hi. I have a Dual 867 Mac. Ive edited in Premiere. I have a little sales film ive put together which id like to take round with me in my PC laptop.
Does anyone know what I need to do to get my film on to a disk which will then load on my laptop? I cant get it off my Mac at the moment.
thanx for any help.

Jeff Donald · August 27th, 2003, 09:11 AM

Which OS are you running? Do you have Toast?

Trent O Connor · August 27th, 2003, 09:39 AM

no i dont have toast. my OS is Mac OS X.
ive actually just sort of done it.
I made it into a movie. put the quicktime movie onto the disk. burnt it - which was the problem i think, i'd put it on to the disk but not burnt it. then in the laptop it says it cant load so i open quicktime. job done. it was very jerky and freezing so ive downloaded onto my hd. its very slightly jerky still but pretty much fine.

Glenn Chan · August 27th, 2003, 06:58 PM

Trent, why aren't you using Final Cut Express/Pro?! Apple has a deal now where you can get FCExpress for free and Pro for a discounted price if you send them the CD for any version of Premiere.

Trent O Connor · August 28th, 2003, 02:58 AM

because I bought the Mac second hand and didnt get the software, it was already installed so I have no disc to send back. damn.
Also, coming from a PC background, Ive only ever used Premiere or DPS.

Dan Dorsey · August 28th, 2003, 08:25 AM

That was it. Duuuhhhhhh. Sometimes the easiest answers are the most elusive. Thanks.

August 25th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#903
Gary Chavez Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 355	quicktime and output deck I am begining to archive my FCP3 projects to a Beta Master tape. My beta deck is an Sony 1800. Being an 1800, I am unable to set an in and out point for insert editing. This is how we kept archive tapes at every newsroom i ever worked at. this method kept one timecode for the entire tape. So far, i must crash edit (hit play and record) which assemble edits, when i want to archive a project. The end result of this method will be an archive tape with tons of different time codes, creating a nightmare if/when i need to dub from this master tape. Do you guys know a way to solve this? thanks

August 25th, 2003, 09:59 AM	#905
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	What are you wanting to do? Insert edit with an 1800? Stripe the tape and it can be done from the front panel. Or buy a serial card and cable for the G4 and FCP will control the deck and do the edits, inserts etc. for you. GeeThree makes the Stealth serial card and you'll need a good serial cable. Total cost, under $100. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 25th, 2003, 10:41 AM	#907
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It gives your Mac RS-422 serial control. Install the card, plug serial cable in Sony 1800 and the other end into Mac, open FCP 3 or 4 and set for serial control of Sony 1800. FCP will now be able to set in and out edit points and control the deck. Stripe a tape is the same as black. Shuttle Pro is not an edit controller and RS-422 is USB compatible. You'll need the Stealth Serial card. Then, the Shuttle Pro can shuttle the deck, set ins and outs etc. If all your doing is DV then why convert to BlackMagic 10 bit video? If you are doing uncompressed, then it will be worth it. Beta deck only understands NTSC video, not computer Codecs or compression algorithms. You must pick an NTSC video format, not QuickTime. You'll need some kind of transcoder, because 1800 will not accept FireWire, only composite (including S-Video) and component. Component will yield higher quality Beta SP footage, but the transcoder will be more costly. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 25th, 2003, 04:12 PM	#908
John Massie New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA Posts: 6	Learning Final Cut Pro 3 Hello All, I just changed churches, and now I am in a church that uses Final Cut Pro 3 for all their editing. I am trying to quickly learn FCP so I can start editing a lot more efficiently. No one at the church knows how to use FCP, so I am going to have to learn it on my own. Unfortunately, I have one setback. I don't have a Mac at home, and I live about 40mins. from my church. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good FREE sites that I could pick up some FCP training. I have already reserved some books from the library, but who knows when they will ever come in... Thanks in Advance, John C. Massie Crossroads Church Video Director

August 25th, 2003, 04:34 PM	#909
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hi John, I don't know of any Web site that offers complete soup-to-nuts basic training for FCP. The LA Final Cut Pro users group site offers some tutorials. http://www.lafcpug.org/ DVCreators offers various classes and training materials, but they're not free. Beyond that your best bet will be books. Our "Read About It" forum features several good books. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 23rd, 2003, 12:21 PM	#901
Nik Hanselmann New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: sacramento, california Posts: 18	Hrmm, thanks for the input guys. I think I will go with the G5 w/ 17" Cinema Display. A CRT would be a good solution except that I may take this machine to college and a 60lb monitor may be a bit much for a tiny dorm desk :)

August 23rd, 2003, 02:00 PM	#902
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I agree with Jaime, consider a CRT if budget is tight. I'm still using my 4 year old 21" Apple Studio Display (really a flat screen trinitron). It looks good at 1600x1200 and holds the timeline, viewer, canvas and palettes fine. I also have a 15" Samsung LCD hooked up to a Radeon PCI graphics card, which also supports a 3rd screen if needed (either s-video, VGA or DVI). My LCD panel is 1024x768 and I use it mainly for the browser, sometimes the canvas. I also do lots of CAD, image editing and 3d modeling. The big screen spoils you, no way I would ever settle for something less than 1600x1200 in the future :-) I also agree with the others about the G5 - get it, especially if it has to last for a few years. But this all really depends on individual needs. Actually I just got a second G4 (single 1.25G). I'm in the middle of some projects and not interested in switching to OSX yet and upgrading all my applications. This G4 still boots OS9 and just sits here and renders 3d 24/7 now. But probably next spring I'll think about moving to the G5. Only one other thing to consider... the G5 is an unknown, not enough out there yet to start hearing about the problems, and the real 64 bit operating system isn't released. I think you need to be prepared to be patient and deal with some odd bugs as an early adopter. And also realize that in a year or so they will be replaced with new models that are cheaper, faster and less buggy. Or at least that has been the case with every other product that Apple has made. I got one of the first generation top of the line power macs, the 8100. It was impressive for its day, but became a dog really quickly (anybody else remember what a nightmare it was to open that case and install RAM? ;-) Not trying to scare you away, but just go into it with eyes wide open... there's a price to pay for leading the pack...

August 25th, 2003, 08:29 AM	#904
Gary Chavez Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 355	sorry for the subject line, should read simply, output.

August 25th, 2003, 10:21 AM	#906
Gary Chavez Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 355	hey Jeff, not sure what you by stripe the tape, you mean lay black on the tape? the front controls of the UVW 1800 panel only allow for me to re-set timecode. cant enter specific points. went to the link you provided but its chinese to me. how does this device allow me to set in-out points on the beta deck? I have a shuttle Pro control device, but i cant set edit points with it. lastly, i would like to archive these projects from quick time. using super good compression (BLACKMAGIC 10 bit) for ultimate quality, it still takes up the same amount of tape space right? however, i cant figure how to play my quick time movies outside of FPC3 so that the beta deck sees them. again, thanks for your patience.

August 27th, 2003, 08:36 AM	#910
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	Putting movies on to Cd's Hi. I have a Dual 867 Mac. Ive edited in Premiere. I have a little sales film ive put together which id like to take round with me in my PC laptop. Does anyone know what I need to do to get my film on to a disk which will then load on my laptop? I cant get it off my Mac at the moment. thanx for any help.

August 27th, 2003, 09:11 AM	#911
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Which OS are you running? Do you have Toast? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 27th, 2003, 09:39 AM	#912
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	no i dont have toast. my OS is Mac OS X. ive actually just sort of done it. I made it into a movie. put the quicktime movie onto the disk. burnt it - which was the problem i think, i'd put it on to the disk but not burnt it. then in the laptop it says it cant load so i open quicktime. job done. it was very jerky and freezing so ive downloaded onto my hd. its very slightly jerky still but pretty much fine.

August 27th, 2003, 06:58 PM	#913
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Trent, why aren't you using Final Cut Express/Pro?! Apple has a deal now where you can get FCExpress for free and Pro for a discounted price if you send them the CD for any version of Premiere.

August 28th, 2003, 02:58 AM	#914
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	because I bought the Mac second hand and didnt get the software, it was already installed so I have no disc to send back. damn. Also, coming from a PC background, Ive only ever used Premiere or DPS.

August 28th, 2003, 08:25 AM	#915
Dan Dorsey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 43	That was it. Duuuhhhhhh. Sometimes the easiest answers are the most elusive. Thanks. __________________ Dan