Opinions on whether i should return the MBP or not at DVinfo.net

Rishi Kumar · March 23rd, 2009, 05:30 PM

I just picked up the brand new MBP 17' last week because i was tired of all the render issues i had with my normal 13' macbook....

i used it for a bit and i realised the render issues are STILL there, i gotta wait 1-2 min whenever i drop a new video in and if i change the speed or whatever on the video i gotta re render....i thought this issue would have been dropt when i picked up the new laptop

i am now contemplating returning this macbook pro for a mac pro....if im goin to spend 3000$ i rather get a machine that eliminates render times no?

Christopher Drews · March 23rd, 2009, 05:47 PM

Go with the Mac Pro. Personally, I'd get a used Mac Pro system on Ebay and use the extra money to buy the parts for a hardware RAID (either RAID 0 or 5). This will allow for speedy rendering, especially when you create a constant speed change.

-C

Paul Rosco · March 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM

Absolutely a MacPro.
Video editing on a laptop, to me seems unrealistic. You will always run into major problems and as time goes on your mbp will feel slower and slower.

Future proof with a MacPro.

William Hohauser · March 23rd, 2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rishi Kumar

I just picked up the brand new MBP 17' last week because i was tired of all the render issues i had with my normal 13' macbook....

i used it for a bit and i realised the render issues are STILL there, i gotta wait 1-2 min whenever i drop a new video in and if i change the speed or whatever on the video i gotta re render....i thought this issue would have been dropt when i picked up the new laptop

i am now contemplating returning this macbook pro for a mac pro....if im goin to spend 3000$ i rather get a machine that eliminates render times no?

What are you editing? DV has real time preview. ProRes has real time preview. DVCProHD has real time preview. And I'm working with a first generation MacBookPro. HDV doesn't have real-time even on a Mac Pro.

Brian David Melnyk · March 24th, 2009, 08:05 AM

make sure your sequence settings match the captured video. the easiest way to do this is open a new sequence and drop in a clip. FCP asks if it should match the sequence to the clip, you say 'YES'.
i have a MBP with FCP and edit HDV easily...

Martin Mayer · March 24th, 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

...HDV doesn't have real-time even on a Mac Pro.

Not sure that's true, William. HDV seems fine to me - and in real-time - even many of the effects playback in realtime (3-way Colour Corrector, for example)!

Rishi Kumar · March 24th, 2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

What are you editing? DV has real time preview. ProRes has real time preview. DVCProHD has real time preview. And I'm working with a first generation MacBookPro. HDV doesn't have real-time even on a Mac Pro.

well lately i been editing just video files out of my digital camera cuz my videocamera broke...so even having trouble with those

William Hohauser · March 24th, 2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mayer

Not sure that's true, William. HDV seems fine to me - and in real-time - even many of the effects playback in realtime (3-way Colour Corrector, for example)!

You are absolutely right about that. I was thinking about real-time preview output to a video monitor (without additional hardware assist) and didn't clarify. Color correction works on a laptop in real-time as well but it's only on the computer screen which isn't the best way to work that particular filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rishi Kumar

well lately i been editing just video files out of my digital camera cuz my videocamera broke...so even having trouble with those

Sounds like you are using AVC video files of some sort. These have to be converted to DV or ProRes before you can get real-time editing out of them. Do some research here, you'll find plenty of posts on how to use these types of files.

Brian Luce · March 24th, 2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rishi Kumar

I just picked up the brand new MBP 17' last week because i was tired of all the render issues i had with my normal 13' macbook....

i used it for a bit and i realised the render issues are STILL there, i gotta wait 1-2 min whenever i drop a new video in and if i change the speed or whatever on the video i gotta re render....i thought this issue would have been dropt when i picked up the new laptop

i am now contemplating returning this macbook pro for a mac pro....if im goin to spend 3000$ i rather get a machine that eliminates render times no?

If it was me, I'd get the mac pro. But, if I could only own one computer, it'd be the MBP. It's so versatile. You still have the Macbook and can do a lot with that too.

Jason Livingston · March 24th, 2009, 01:29 PM

I think the MBP vs. MP argument is missing the point here.

A MBP is perfectly capable of playing HD with realtime effects, as long as you're using one of the supported codecs and your timeline is set right. A Mac Pro can do a few more layers or effects in realtime, but the difference is not THAT huge. I've edited 2hr feature films in ProRes 1080p with a significant number of composited layers and effects, color correction on every clip, etc. on a MBP and it was fine. Sure, my realtime playback wasn't always at full quality and I had to wait a little more (especially for final output renders), but it's completely possible.

In the OP's case, it seems they are using an unsupported codec for editing, thus the long render times to be able to see anything. You could spend $6000 on a top of the line Mac Pro and then the renders would finish in 5 minutes instead of 10, but you'd still have to re-render and wait EVERY time you made any change to your timeline.

A much easier, faster, and cheaper solution would be to convert the files over to a supported codec like AIC or ProRes. Then even a MBP could edit them without much render time at all.

Boyd Ostroff · March 27th, 2009, 10:02 AM

I would just mention another point as an aside. Have you checked the return/exchange policy with the vendor? If you purchase online from Apple, computers may be exchanged within 14 days for a 10% restocking fee if they have been opened. HOWEVER, there is a very important caveat which some people have learned about too late. If you order a custom-configured Mac, it CANNOT BE RETURNED. A custom configuration might be as simple as adding more RAM. See Apple's policy here: Apple Sales and Refund Policy

Jonathan Jones · March 28th, 2009, 11:21 AM

Going back to what William said earlier, make sure your sequence settings match the codec in which your video is created. This is very likely the cause as to why your have to endure a render even from just importing your source footage. If your source footage is not of a standard video codec to which you can set your sequence settings, there are several options available for you to convert it before dropping into FCP, or you can continue to await the importing render times.

As far as viewing adjustments, you might want to double check your RT settings and ensure you have them set to allow RT previews conducive to the footage, processing, and system specs you are working with.

Finally, you also may note that many of the effects listed in your Filters list are presented in bold type, while a select few others are not. The bold type indicates that those filters will allow for real-time previews without having to be rendered. The ones in standard type will have to be rendered before they are previewed. As to this last part, I am not sure if it is directly tied to the VRAM capabilities of your specific system. I just transitioned from a 5 year old Powerbook running FCP 4.5 to a new 24" iMac running FCP 6, and noted the bold type filters. My old system didn't present distinguishing type in the Filters list, and it was severely underpowered in the graphics area....consequently, every filter required rendering in order to preview.

-Jon

Chuck Fadely · March 28th, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rishi Kumar

well lately i been editing just video files out of my digital camera cuz my videocamera broke...so even having trouble with those

Aha... you've probably got motion jpg avi's or something. You'll need to transcode those puppies before you can edit, and the biggest, meanest mac pro won't help a bit.

Rishi Kumar · March 31st, 2009, 10:03 AM

Hey thanks for all the responses!

my question to you guys now is how do i convert the video from my digtal camera into a format that my FCP can use with realtime effects?

Jonathan Jones · March 31st, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rishi Kumar

Hey thanks for all the responses!

my question to you guys now is how do i convert the video from my digtal camera into a format that my FCP can use with realtime effects?

There is a wealth of format conversion applications on the net - check out versiontracker.com to look for a list of what is popular. Some titles are freeware, some are shareware, some are commercial applications. There is a great variation of quality, interface design, intuitive controls, etc between the many apps.

Some apps focus specifically on optimizing your conversion to compressed formats, but that is not necessarily what you are looking for here. So since you are using FCP, it is safe to assume that you also have the Pro key for Quicktime. Quicktime Pro can also handle most of your basic conversion/transcoding needs. This may not be the most intuitive application to work with for some folks, so you might also consider MpegStreamclip from Squared 5.

Squared 5 - MPEG Streamclip video converter for Mac and Windows

This is a very popular utitlity for such purposes. Just be sure to transcode your video into a codec most conducive to your preferred editing format. Mpeg Streamclip lays out the options quite well.

-Jon

March 23rd, 2009, 05:30 PM	#1
Rishi Kumar Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 55	Opinions on whether i should return the MBP or not I just picked up the brand new MBP 17' last week because i was tired of all the render issues i had with my normal 13' macbook.... i used it for a bit and i realised the render issues are STILL there, i gotta wait 1-2 min whenever i drop a new video in and if i change the speed or whatever on the video i gotta re render....i thought this issue would have been dropt when i picked up the new laptop i am now contemplating returning this macbook pro for a mac pro....if im goin to spend 3000$ i rather get a machine that eliminates render times no?

March 28th, 2009, 11:21 AM	#12
Jonathan Jones Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Healdsburg, California Posts: 1,138	Going back to what William said earlier, make sure your sequence settings match the codec in which your video is created. This is very likely the cause as to why your have to endure a render even from just importing your source footage. If your source footage is not of a standard video codec to which you can set your sequence settings, there are several options available for you to convert it before dropping into FCP, or you can continue to await the importing render times. As far as viewing adjustments, you might want to double check your RT settings and ensure you have them set to allow RT previews conducive to the footage, processing, and system specs you are working with. Finally, you also may note that many of the effects listed in your Filters list are presented in bold type, while a select few others are not. The bold type indicates that those filters will allow for real-time previews without having to be rendered. The ones in standard type will have to be rendered before they are previewed. As to this last part, I am not sure if it is directly tied to the VRAM capabilities of your specific system. I just transitioned from a 5 year old Powerbook running FCP 4.5 to a new 24" iMac running FCP 6, and noted the bold type filters. My old system didn't present distinguishing type in the Filters list, and it was severely underpowered in the graphics area....consequently, every filter required rendering in order to preview. -Jon __________________ "Are we to go on record, sir, with our assertion that the 'pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers' are, in point of fact', magically delicious?" - Walter Hollarhan before the House Subcommittee on Integrity in Advertising - May, 1974

March 23rd, 2009, 05:47 PM	#2
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Go with the Mac Pro. Personally, I'd get a used Mac Pro system on Ebay and use the extra money to buy the parts for a hardware RAID (either RAID 0 or 5). This will allow for speedy rendering, especially when you create a constant speed change. -C

March 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM	#3
Paul Rosco New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Waltervillem OR Posts: 10	Absolutely a MacPro. Video editing on a laptop, to me seems unrealistic. You will always run into major problems and as time goes on your mbp will feel slower and slower. Future proof with a MacPro.

March 24th, 2009, 08:05 AM	#5
Brian David Melnyk Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Winnipeg Canada Posts: 532	make sure your sequence settings match the captured video. the easiest way to do this is open a new sequence and drop in a clip. FCP asks if it should match the sequence to the clip, you say 'YES'. i have a MBP with FCP and edit HDV easily...

March 24th, 2009, 01:29 PM	#10
Jason Livingston Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 71	I think the MBP vs. MP argument is missing the point here. A MBP is perfectly capable of playing HD with realtime effects, as long as you're using one of the supported codecs and your timeline is set right. A Mac Pro can do a few more layers or effects in realtime, but the difference is not THAT huge. I've edited 2hr feature films in ProRes 1080p with a significant number of composited layers and effects, color correction on every clip, etc. on a MBP and it was fine. Sure, my realtime playback wasn't always at full quality and I had to wait a little more (especially for final output renders), but it's completely possible. In the OP's case, it seems they are using an unsupported codec for editing, thus the long render times to be able to see anything. You could spend $6000 on a top of the line Mac Pro and then the renders would finish in 5 minutes instead of 10, but you'd still have to re-render and wait EVERY time you made any change to your timeline. A much easier, faster, and cheaper solution would be to convert the files over to a supported codec like AIC or ProRes. Then even a MBP could edit them without much render time at all.

March 27th, 2009, 10:02 AM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I would just mention another point as an aside. Have you checked the return/exchange policy with the vendor? If you purchase online from Apple, computers may be exchanged within 14 days for a 10% restocking fee if they have been opened. HOWEVER, there is a very important caveat which some people have learned about too late. If you order a custom-configured Mac, it CANNOT BE RETURNED. A custom configuration might be as simple as adding more RAM. See Apple's policy here: Apple Sales and Refund Policy

March 31st, 2009, 10:03 AM	#14
Rishi Kumar Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 55	Hey thanks for all the responses! my question to you guys now is how do i convert the video from my digtal camera into a format that my FCP can use with realtime effects?