Final Cut Pro and XDCAM EX -- various topics

Paul Chiu · March 25th, 2009, 09:36 AM

Been using iMovie 09 for non critical work with PMW-EX1 1080/30p footage over the last month and while the video enhancement controls are sparten compared with Final Cut Pro 6, iMovie09 saves you a ton of time when doing fun stuff.

In this HD sample only 1080/30p from PMW-EX1 was used.
I cut up the footage with iMovie09 and used one of the themes.
Changing some of the timing tools and ken burns effects give me this:
6000kbs encoded using 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime for YouTube.com

YouTube - PS196 does Rumba and the Waltz - Ball Room Dancing by Larocca 5th Graders in HD 720p (Sony PMW-EX1)

This HD sample has a short portion from a Canon HG10 in the front at 1080/60i
iMovie09 cannot handle mixed media right now perfectly as the 60i footage seems badly encoded when compared with the main 1080/30p material. I think I can work around this by processing the 1080/60i source with FCP but again, iMovie09 is for saving time. If you want to do critical stuff, iMovie 09 is not my recommendation.
still, this stuff looks good enough in HD
7000kbs at 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime

YouTube - William Chiu plays Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 2 (Lyrical poetry to Madame Camille Pleyel)

In this last HD sample you see the limitations of iMovie 09 with video enhancement.
the 1080/30p footage was taken with the wrong +9db gain setting for the fireworks show.
I should have used +0 or +3db. As such, the graininess showed throughout and without Final Cut Studio's great noise controls, iMovie09 handle it only ok for 720p resolution.
8000kbs at 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime
(BTW, the cropping used in the fireworks footage was as much as 50% of the original in order to isolate the castle and eliminate bodies!)

YouTube - Wishes Nighttime Spectacular Entertainment at Magic Kingdom Theme Park Fireworks in HD 720p / 1080p

Please share your settings and techniques!

paul

William Griffin · March 25th, 2009, 03:17 PM

A producer/editor that I work with alot got a good deal today on a Final Cut Studio 2 package that includes FCP 6 and as I am not a editor.... my BIG questions is:

Will this new program work with native EX3 video files? and will we still have to use Sony 2.5 clip browser to convert the files?

I know that this seems silly and strange to most of you out there on this forum But the EX3 camera and the SxS,KxS world is all new to us ,as we have both have made a large investment in gear and computers.

So, I just want to make sure this will all work and we can live "happily ever after" in the XDCAM EX world.....

thanks

Craig Seeman · March 25th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Sigh, doesn't Sony's site provide any info?

ClipBrowser 2.5 is for copying files primarily as far as FCP is concerned.
XDCAM Transfer 2.9 rewraps to MOV for FCP.
Sony has Log and Transfer plugin for FCP as well.

Sony | Micro Site - XDCAM EX

Sony | Micro Site - XDCAM EX

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...lCutPro_R1.pdf

Joachim Hoge · March 25th, 2009, 03:58 PM

I've used fcp 6 with the Ex cams for over a year now. It's a great tool and you will have no problems with the xdcam integration

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 11:57 AM

Bill: The answer is yes. :)

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 12:02 PM

How "snappy" is it to work with XDCAM EX footage using iMovie? I'm on a newer MacBook Pro and when trying to edit with Final Cut 6, it's kind of sluggish. Usable, but nothing like editing on our 8-core MacPro. Does iMovie help in this area?

Apple always designs great looking templates. I haven't even looked at iMovie 9 yet. Thanks for the heads up! :)

Paul Chiu · March 26th, 2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

How "snappy" is it to work with XDCAM EX footage using iMovie? I'm on a newer MacBook Pro and when trying to edit with Final Cut 6, it's kind of sluggish. Usable, but nothing like editing on our 8-core MacPro. Does iMovie help in this area?

Apple always designs great looking templates. I haven't even looked at iMovie 9 yet. Thanks for the heads up! :)

i know what you mean by sluggish working with FCP 6 even with a mac pro. with macbook pro, even with a recent 2.66 unibody, loading of XDCAM-EX files can be slow. rendering is faster, but the general moving around, 3 color correction, audio editing can still be slow on the mbp15-2.80. i have yet to test a mbp17-2.93 with 8gb ram, but FCP is a pig. powerful, but needs tons of ram.

with a mbp15-2.80, iMovie09 is very quick loading XDCAM-EX 1080/30p footage. moving portions around is quick and pause-free.
rendering on the mbp15-2.80 is about 20 minutes for 8 minutes of 1080p footage into quicktime h264 at 8000bps. very acceptable.

i recommend iMovie09 for casual work!

paul

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 02:26 PM

Thanks Paul! I'm going to have to give it a try soon. Thanks for sharing.

Matt Davis · March 26th, 2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Griffin

Will this new program work with native EX3 video files? and will we still have to use Sony 2.5 clip browser to convert the files?

Some edit software will work 'natively' with EX footage. FCP needs the original footage put in the electronic equivalent of a brown paper bag to keep things together. So the files aren't converted, just 'bagged up'.

Another analogy I've thought of (probably due to the lateness of the hour) is that if each shot from your EX camera wants to enter the Final Cut Pro conference, it needs to get a little badge and a goody bag, which is what happens in Clip Browser or XDCAM Transfer.

Of course, Clip Browser can clip on a different sort of badge and a different conference pack for the Avid conference or even (sorry about this) mince up the delegate and reconstitute him or her as a SD clip, WMV or whatever. It's been that kind of day.

But I wouldn't get too stressed about the ability to edit 'native' versus the software helper route. It has advantages of backup, adding extra data, batch naming and filing. And it's not altering the actual visual data at all.

Craig Seeman · March 26th, 2009, 04:00 PM

A variant on Matt's analogy.

Each NLE is a fairly exclusive nightclub with a dress code.
XDCAM Transfer will make sure it's dressed for the FCP nightclub (with MOV clothing)
ClipBrowser can make sure it's dressed for the Avid nightclub (with MXF for NLE clothing)
Then there are the "naturist" camps that will let them in with naked MP4.

Kevin Cates · March 27th, 2009, 01:10 AM

If your machines are at least intel dual core processors, you should have no problems.

Ed Kukla · March 27th, 2009, 07:09 AM

What if you want the footage shot on an EX camera used in more than one edit system?

Lets say I transfer the footage from the cards via clip browser to a hard drive and put it in an FCP wrapper. Then that hard drive gets taken to a different editor who uses Premiere on a PC system. Then what? Then a month later the client goes to a different editor who uses AVID or ?

Joachim Hoge · March 27th, 2009, 07:15 AM

this is one reason I always keep a copy of the entire BPVA folder, even after logged and transferd to final cut. Problem is that they can't pick up from your edit as it has to be logged again

Ed Kukla · March 27th, 2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

Problem is that they can't pick up from your edit as it has to be logged again

Sorry, I don't understand this comment. I am very new to all this. Speak VERRRRY slowly and with very simple words!

Joachim Hoge · March 27th, 2009, 08:43 AM

I mean that the clips you have imported into final cut can't be taken directly into premiere. If you have a copy of the original BPVA folder ie. Everything that was on the SxS card you can bring that folder into premiere and edit the same footage, but you have to start from scratch since you don't have the edit points you made in final cut

March 25th, 2009, 09:36 AM	#16
Paul Chiu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: new york Posts: 231	iMovie 09 works well with PMW-EX1 - HD Samples Been using iMovie 09 for non critical work with PMW-EX1 1080/30p footage over the last month and while the video enhancement controls are sparten compared with Final Cut Pro 6, iMovie09 saves you a ton of time when doing fun stuff. In this HD sample only 1080/30p from PMW-EX1 was used. I cut up the footage with iMovie09 and used one of the themes. Changing some of the timing tools and ken burns effects give me this: 6000kbs encoded using 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime for YouTube.com YouTube - PS196 does Rumba and the Waltz - Ball Room Dancing by Larocca 5th Graders in HD 720p (Sony PMW-EX1) This HD sample has a short portion from a Canon HG10 in the front at 1080/60i iMovie09 cannot handle mixed media right now perfectly as the 60i footage seems badly encoded when compared with the main 1080/30p material. I think I can work around this by processing the 1080/60i source with FCP but again, iMovie09 is for saving time. If you want to do critical stuff, iMovie 09 is not my recommendation. still, this stuff looks good enough in HD 7000kbs at 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime YouTube - William Chiu plays Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 2 (Lyrical poetry to Madame Camille Pleyel) In this last HD sample you see the limitations of iMovie 09 with video enhancement. the 1080/30p footage was taken with the wrong +9db gain setting for the fireworks show. I should have used +0 or +3db. As such, the graininess showed throughout and without Final Cut Studio's great noise controls, iMovie09 handle it only ok for 720p resolution. 8000kbs at 29.97fps, H264 and Quicktime (BTW, the cropping used in the fireworks footage was as much as 50% of the original in order to isolate the castle and eliminate bodies!) YouTube - Wishes Nighttime Spectacular Entertainment at Magic Kingdom Theme Park Fireworks in HD 720p / 1080p Please share your settings and techniques! paul

March 25th, 2009, 03:17 PM	#17
William Griffin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 204	Final Cut Studio 2, with FCP 6: will it work with EX3 A producer/editor that I work with alot got a good deal today on a Final Cut Studio 2 package that includes FCP 6 and as I am not a editor.... my BIG questions is: Will this new program work with native EX3 video files? and will we still have to use Sony 2.5 clip browser to convert the files? I know that this seems silly and strange to most of you out there on this forum But the EX3 camera and the SxS,KxS world is all new to us ,as we have both have made a large investment in gear and computers. So, I just want to make sure this will all work and we can live "happily ever after" in the XDCAM EX world..... thanks __________________ Bill Griffin SONY PXW-X320,PMW-300K2, LiveU LU-500,Sound Devices 552 Mixer,www.Dallascamguy.com

March 26th, 2009, 11:57 AM	#20
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Bill: The answer is yes. :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 26th, 2009, 12:02 PM	#21
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	How "snappy" is it to work with XDCAM EX footage using iMovie? I'm on a newer MacBook Pro and when trying to edit with Final Cut 6, it's kind of sluggish. Usable, but nothing like editing on our 8-core MacPro. Does iMovie help in this area? Apple always designs great looking templates. I haven't even looked at iMovie 9 yet. Thanks for the heads up! :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 26th, 2009, 02:26 PM	#23
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Thanks Paul! I'm going to have to give it a try soon. Thanks for sharing. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 25th, 2009, 03:23 PM	#18
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Sigh, doesn't Sony's site provide any info? ClipBrowser 2.5 is for copying files primarily as far as FCP is concerned. XDCAM Transfer 2.9 rewraps to MOV for FCP. Sony has Log and Transfer plugin for FCP as well. Sony \| Micro Site - XDCAM EX Sony \| Micro Site - XDCAM EX http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...lCutPro_R1.pdf

March 25th, 2009, 03:58 PM	#19
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I've used fcp 6 with the Ex cams for over a year now. It's a great tool and you will have no problems with the xdcam integration

March 26th, 2009, 04:00 PM	#25
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	A variant on Matt's analogy. Each NLE is a fairly exclusive nightclub with a dress code. XDCAM Transfer will make sure it's dressed for the FCP nightclub (with MOV clothing) ClipBrowser can make sure it's dressed for the Avid nightclub (with MXF for NLE clothing) Then there are the "naturist" camps that will let them in with naked MP4.

March 27th, 2009, 01:10 AM	#26
Kevin Cates Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Fairfax, CA USA Posts: 33	If your machines are at least intel dual core processors, you should have no problems.

March 27th, 2009, 07:09 AM	#27
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	what if? What if you want the footage shot on an EX camera used in more than one edit system? Lets say I transfer the footage from the cards via clip browser to a hard drive and put it in an FCP wrapper. Then that hard drive gets taken to a different editor who uses Premiere on a PC system. Then what? Then a month later the client goes to a different editor who uses AVID or ?

March 27th, 2009, 07:15 AM	#28
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	this is one reason I always keep a copy of the entire BPVA folder, even after logged and transferd to final cut. Problem is that they can't pick up from your edit as it has to be logged again

March 27th, 2009, 08:43 AM	#30
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I mean that the clips you have imported into final cut can't be taken directly into premiere. If you have a copy of the original BPVA folder ie. Everything that was on the SxS card you can bring that folder into premiere and edit the same footage, but you have to start from scratch since you don't have the edit points you made in final cut