newbe to mac..fcp vs i movie 2008 at DVinfo.net

William Boehm · March 6th, 2009, 12:02 PM

i was just given a mac G5 with 2008 imovie. question is: how do you 'experts' in editing (i am new to this and shoot a canon xha1 hdv 60i) think i should start editing. does hdv need to go to pro res 422 (isnt that purchased?) then try and experiment in imovie to start, then get FCP..or just go FCP. this is for both family and some nature, the latter to potentially be sold. thanks ahead of time. bill

John Stakes · March 6th, 2009, 12:35 PM

If you need control over your footage such as color correcting etc...get Final Cut.

JS

Jeremy Doyle · March 6th, 2009, 01:21 PM

Pro res only comes with FCP. You can get a decoder, but not encoder, without FCP. imovie will import your HDV as the apple intermediate codec.

William Boehm · March 6th, 2009, 02:18 PM

jeremy...can you explain a little further as i am not yet video edit savy. have done lots in photoshop cs3 for digital..but thats it. are you saying pro res only comes if FCP, and apple has another int. codec when using imovie? is there loss in that codec..vs the minimal loss in prores422?

Jeremy Doyle · March 6th, 2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Boehm

are you saying pro res only comes if FCP, and apple has another int. codec when using imovie? ?

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. The Pro Res codec only comes with FCP. That's the only way to get the encoding part. They have a Pro Res decoder for both mac and PC's so you can view pro res footage, but not encode to it.

As for the rest of your questions, I don't really have an answer as I've never used imovie because it doesn't do what I need for professional level codec handling and editing.

William Hohauser · March 6th, 2009, 03:01 PM

iMovie transcodes HDV (which is what your camera records in) to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) in order to provide frame by frame editing. AIC was the first HDV editing solution Apple provided for people who wanted to get away from the problems associated with HDV. In the couple of years since, that codec has been supplanted by ProRes which is more robust and provides better image quality. However Apple has not brought ProRes to iMovie yet and they probably won't anytime soon, if ever.

There is loss in any transcoding process, the difference is in how much is actually noticeable. ProRes is better than AIC and it might be noticeably better in detailed nature shots, especially with moving leaves or water. Might be, really depends on the shot. If you intend to distribute the finished edit in standard definition only, the difference between the codecs probably wouldn't make a difference. Final Cut Pro is a better program all around but if you just want to do some simple editing, iMovie will get the job done. Remember that AIC and ProRes files are three times larger than a corresponding HDV file so keep track of free hard drive space.

William Boehm · March 6th, 2009, 03:45 PM

thankyou that helped. then the question is can you by pro res 422 separate or use the free online. Do any of you use DNxHD Avid's free intermediate codec. It does not use an AVI
container on the PC but uses a Quicktime container like ProRes does, and may be interchangeable between pc and mac.

Noah Kadner · March 6th, 2009, 06:17 PM

ProRes encoding is just one of many many features Final Cut Pro has over iMovie. If you want to know them all I'd suggest taking the time to research on your own. It's one of those- just trust us things. Either you are doing pro work for hire with FCP or you are only dabbling around with iMovie.

Noah

William Boehm · March 6th, 2009, 06:49 PM

i guess my question is if anyone uses DNxHD that is free..stores their material on a hard drive, then use imovie 2008 to do what you can do. again i dont know anything about editing, but FCP is a very expensive package. or..is there a way to find FCP in a cheaper bundle. my wife would be able to get an educational package. bill

Noah Kadner · March 6th, 2009, 06:56 PM

Again- no. DNXHD would do nothing for you in iMovie. But then again you could always start with iMovie and see how you do.

Noah

Jeremy Doyle · March 6th, 2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Boehm

but FCP is a very expensive package. or..is there a way to find FCP in a cheaper bundle..

FCP studio is very cheap for everything that's included. You could always get final cut express for 200 bucks, but like imovie it is limited in the codecs you can use. If you want to step up to a pro codec you have to get a pro program.

You will not be able to use the free avid codec with either imovie or final cut express.

David W. Jones · March 7th, 2009, 06:24 AM

If I were you, I would not worry over current buzz words, or proRes422.
Just work with iMovie, learn the basics of editing, and have fun.

William Hohauser · March 7th, 2009, 09:34 AM

I wouldn't worry about ProRes422 or Avid codecs at this point. Save money and experiment with iMovie or get Final Cut Express, edit in AIC and finish your project. If you have to deliver a finished product in HD for a specific purpose, then it's time to think about ProRes and other things. If money is a concern, you have all the tools already. Remember, you can always re-edit the project later.

March 6th, 2009, 12:02 PM	#1
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	newbe to mac..fcp vs i movie 2008 i was just given a mac G5 with 2008 imovie. question is: how do you 'experts' in editing (i am new to this and shoot a canon xha1 hdv 60i) think i should start editing. does hdv need to go to pro res 422 (isnt that purchased?) then try and experiment in imovie to start, then get FCP..or just go FCP. this is for both family and some nature, the latter to potentially be sold. thanks ahead of time. bill

March 6th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#6
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	iMovie transcodes HDV (which is what your camera records in) to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) in order to provide frame by frame editing. AIC was the first HDV editing solution Apple provided for people who wanted to get away from the problems associated with HDV. In the couple of years since, that codec has been supplanted by ProRes which is more robust and provides better image quality. However Apple has not brought ProRes to iMovie yet and they probably won't anytime soon, if ever. There is loss in any transcoding process, the difference is in how much is actually noticeable. ProRes is better than AIC and it might be noticeably better in detailed nature shots, especially with moving leaves or water. Might be, really depends on the shot. If you intend to distribute the finished edit in standard definition only, the difference between the codecs probably wouldn't make a difference. Final Cut Pro is a better program all around but if you just want to do some simple editing, iMovie will get the job done. Remember that AIC and ProRes files are three times larger than a corresponding HDV file so keep track of free hard drive space. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

March 7th, 2009, 09:34 AM	#13
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	I wouldn't worry about ProRes422 or Avid codecs at this point. Save money and experiment with iMovie or get Final Cut Express, edit in AIC and finish your project. If you have to deliver a finished product in HD for a specific purpose, then it's time to think about ProRes and other things. If money is a concern, you have all the tools already. Remember, you can always re-edit the project later. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

March 6th, 2009, 12:35 PM	#2
John Stakes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 558	If you need control over your footage such as color correcting etc...get Final Cut. JS

March 6th, 2009, 01:21 PM	#3
Jeremy Doyle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brainerd, MN Posts: 287	Pro res only comes with FCP. You can get a decoder, but not encoder, without FCP. imovie will import your HDV as the apple intermediate codec.

March 6th, 2009, 02:18 PM	#4
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	jeremy...can you explain a little further as i am not yet video edit savy. have done lots in photoshop cs3 for digital..but thats it. are you saying pro res only comes if FCP, and apple has another int. codec when using imovie? is there loss in that codec..vs the minimal loss in prores422?

March 6th, 2009, 03:45 PM	#7
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	thankyou that helped. then the question is can you by pro res 422 separate or use the free online. Do any of you use DNxHD Avid's free intermediate codec. It does not use an AVI container on the PC but uses a Quicktime container like ProRes does, and may be interchangeable between pc and mac.

March 6th, 2009, 06:17 PM	#8
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 435	ProRes encoding is just one of many many features Final Cut Pro has over iMovie. If you want to know them all I'd suggest taking the time to research on your own. It's one of those- just trust us things. Either you are doing pro work for hire with FCP or you are only dabbling around with iMovie. Noah

March 6th, 2009, 06:49 PM	#9
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	i guess my question is if anyone uses DNxHD that is free..stores their material on a hard drive, then use imovie 2008 to do what you can do. again i dont know anything about editing, but FCP is a very expensive package. or..is there a way to find FCP in a cheaper bundle. my wife would be able to get an educational package. bill

March 6th, 2009, 06:56 PM	#10
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 435	Again- no. DNXHD would do nothing for you in iMovie. But then again you could always start with iMovie and see how you do. Noah

March 7th, 2009, 06:24 AM	#12
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	If I were you, I would not worry over current buzz words, or proRes422. Just work with iMovie, learn the basics of editing, and have fun.