removing back ground noise at DVinfo.net

Brandon Carter · March 5th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Not sure if this should be here or in the audio forum but anyway....... I am using FCS2 and working with a clip that has some audio trouble. The area that we filmed in has an interstate highway about a mile away. In the back on the audio you can hear a constant low roar. its not terrible and I can live with it, but would like to clean it up if possible. What can i do? Thanks.

Battle Vaughan · March 5th, 2009, 10:15 AM

Some possiblities: export to Soundtrack Pro, select a section that has only the noise in it, use the noise reduction tool. Or do a low-cut eq to cut out everything under 300hz, which is about where voices start.

One nice program we use a lot is Soundsoap, although it's a little pricey, it does a great job of analyzing noises and removing them, highly recommended. /Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Mitchell Lewis · March 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM

Adobe Soundbooth has a slick built-in sound removal tool that's great for removing the sound of air conditioning, etc...

If you don't have that in your arsenal, then just try the EQ that comes with FCP. Roll off the low frequencies (you can hear it live while your making the adjustment) and I bet you'll be happy.

Battle Vaughan · March 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM

My message was too brief....to use the noise reduction tool in Soundtrack is a two step process, you sample the noise (find a couple of seconds that is just the noise you want to remove with nothing else going on), click on process > noise reduction>set noise print. Then select everything and click on process > noise reduction >reduce noise. A box will open with some perameters you can experiment with, you can preview the result or preview the noise to be sure you're not cutting out the content, then click apply..../bvaughan

Shaun Roemich · March 5th, 2009, 08:24 PM

I'll second Battle's commentary with the suggestion that you go in with reasonable expectations. It's called Noise REDUCTION instead of Noise Removal for a reason. Don't be TOO aggressive with the percentage removal or else you'll get bad low bandwidth MP3-like aliasing. But it does work wonders if you're careful and can accept some remaining noise.

ADDENDUM: I use the option to listen to the Noise as I preview. If it begins to sound like human speech (or whatever I'm try to KEEP), I'm being too aggressive.

David Knaggs · March 5th, 2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan

One nice program we use a lot is Soundsoap, although it's a little pricey, it does a great job of analyzing noises and removing them, highly recommended.

Hi Battle.

One thing I notice with Noise Reduction on Soundtrack Pro, particularly when there's been a lot of background noise, is a gurgling sound in the parts where no-one is speaking. Which is why I tend to favor the Channel EQ Filter (to remove selected lower frequencies) these days before I'll resort to Noise Reduction.

As you've been able to compare both, would you say that Soundsoap does a much better job than Soundtrack Pro with noise reduction/removal?

Thanks.

Reuben Miller · March 6th, 2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Carter

Not sure if this should be here or in the audio forum but anyway....... I am using FCS2 and working with a clip that has some audio trouble. The area that we filmed in has an interstate highway about a mile away. In the back on the audio you can hear a constant low roar. its not terrible and I can live with it, but would like to clean it up if possible. What can i do? Thanks.

This Soundtrack Pro tutorial may help you: Remove Unwanted Noise Using Soundtrack Pro

Jason Livingston · March 6th, 2009, 09:37 AM

In my experience the noise removal filter in Soundtrack Pro is junk. With any noticeable noise reduction comes even more noticeable artifacting (gurgling or warbling). If you tweak the filter parameters enough to remove the artifacts then the noise is hardly reduced at all.

The one in Adobe Soundbooth is MUCH better. It can remove a lot more noise before any artifacting becomes noticeable. But I remember getting even better results back with CoolEdit in 1995.

Reuben Miller · March 6th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Livingston

In my experience the noise removal filter in Soundtrack Pro is junk. With any noticeable noise reduction comes even more noticeable artifacting (gurgling or warbling). If you tweak the filter parameters enough to remove the artifacts then the noise is hardly reduced at all.

The one in Adobe Soundbooth is MUCH better. It can remove a lot more noise before any artifacting becomes noticeable. But I remember getting even better results back with CoolEdit in 1995.

Never noticed any of the issues you are talking about, and the OP is asking for help with FCS2, not Adobe.

Battle Vaughan · March 6th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Knaggs

Hi Battle.

As you've been able to compare both, would you say that Soundsoap does a much better job than Soundtrack Pro with noise reduction/removal?

Thanks.

I, too, notice the burbling phenomenon in either program if the reduction is either overdone or the noise is too broadband to be removed without hurting the content.

I like Soundsoap because it has a very good automatic alogrithm for identifying noise, and has a visual readout of what it's removing, plus it has more and very simple tools to tweak the results. It offers automatic 50 or 60 cycle hum reduction, click and pop removal, a setting to protect voice frequencies, and to enhance what's left after the reduciton. There is a good demo on the Bias.com site that might interest you. Usual disclaimer, no interest in them except as user, etc. BTW we bought the cheaper version, the pro version is way more and I'm not sure what more it offers.

The Soundtrack tool is somewhat less sophisticated, I think, although for simple noise it works if you work at it. It just lacks the extra tools that I think help maximize the result.

/bvaughan

Andy Wilkinson · March 6th, 2009, 10:16 AM

I'm not a big fan of Soundtrack Pro 2 as it's buggy, has some clunky features and occasionally crashes my MBP etc. but I have to say I had a critical interview of a key individual that suffered from a background hiss from an overhead aircon unit (she wanted the interview done THERE!). It took me some time to get all the settings right but I ended up turning a totally non-useable audio track into a perfectly acceptable one with STP2...got me out of a hole for sure.

As already indicated, you need to approach the specific noise issue with a structured approach (e.g. equalisation then noise removal) and not over do any one of the stages but it's pretty easy once you know how and easy to try various settings and hear how it's going in the process.

The tutorial linked above is OK and a very good start for this feature of STP2. I also used the Soundtrack Pro 2 book by Martin Sitter, 2008 (ISBN 13:978-0-321-50266-7) to learn the basics of the program when I first got FCS2. As always, good results can be obtained if you understand exactly how to use the tools properly but next time someone asks me to do an interview under a noisy aircon unit I'll more strongly suggest another location!

David Knaggs · March 6th, 2009, 02:57 PM

Thanks Batlle, Andy and everyone else for the interesting points of view.

I get excellent results with Noise Reduction in STP (Soundtrack Pro) when it's a constantly repeating sound, such as air conditioning, and the speaker has a strong enough voice (usually meaning the boom mic is fairly close to their mouth). No gurgling/burbling and a complete removal of the background noise.

But in other circumstances, such as a master shot with a number of actors (meaning the boom mic is not able to be very close), and the background noise is not constantly repeating (such as traffic), I definitely prefer the Channel EQ filter. Channel EQ gives you a moving visual graph of the frequencies and it's pretty easy to see the frequency range of each voice plus the range of the background noise and you can then manipulate your curve accordingly. That filter has "saved the day" for me on many occasions.

STP also has excellent facilities for ADR, when you get down to that last resort (although I guess that would mostly be an option for drama-type work, rather than things such as ENG).

On the whole, I find STP to be an incredibly powerful application (I found the training DVD put out by Ripple Training to be absolutely brilliant) but feel that its specific Noise Reduction tool could really do with an upgrade (more versatile algorithms). Which is why I'm interested in hearing about the effectiveness of other applications or plug-ins with noise reduction capabilities.

March 5th, 2009, 10:01 AM	#1
Brandon Carter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 76	removing back ground noise Not sure if this should be here or in the audio forum but anyway....... I am using FCS2 and working with a clip that has some audio trouble. The area that we filmed in has an interstate highway about a mile away. In the back on the audio you can hear a constant low roar. its not terrible and I can live with it, but would like to clean it up if possible. What can i do? Thanks.

March 5th, 2009, 10:15 AM	#2
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Some possiblities: export to Soundtrack Pro, select a section that has only the noise in it, use the noise reduction tool. Or do a low-cut eq to cut out everything under 300hz, which is about where voices start. One nice program we use a lot is Soundsoap, although it's a little pricey, it does a great job of analyzing noises and removing them, highly recommended. /Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team Last edited by Battle Vaughan; March 5th, 2009 at 10:23 AM. Reason: spelling

March 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM	#3
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Adobe Soundbooth has a slick built-in sound removal tool that's great for removing the sound of air conditioning, etc... If you don't have that in your arsenal, then just try the EQ that comes with FCP. Roll off the low frequencies (you can hear it live while your making the adjustment) and I bet you'll be happy. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 5th, 2009, 08:24 PM	#5
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	I'll second Battle's commentary with the suggestion that you go in with reasonable expectations. It's called Noise REDUCTION instead of Noise Removal for a reason. Don't be TOO aggressive with the percentage removal or else you'll get bad low bandwidth MP3-like aliasing. But it does work wonders if you're careful and can accept some remaining noise. ADDENDUM: I use the option to listen to the Noise as I preview. If it begins to sound like human speech (or whatever I'm try to KEEP), I'm being too aggressive. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

March 6th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#11
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	I'm not a big fan of Soundtrack Pro 2 as it's buggy, has some clunky features and occasionally crashes my MBP etc. but I have to say I had a critical interview of a key individual that suffered from a background hiss from an overhead aircon unit (she wanted the interview done THERE!). It took me some time to get all the settings right but I ended up turning a totally non-useable audio track into a perfectly acceptable one with STP2...got me out of a hole for sure. As already indicated, you need to approach the specific noise issue with a structured approach (e.g. equalisation then noise removal) and not over do any one of the stages but it's pretty easy once you know how and easy to try various settings and hear how it's going in the process. The tutorial linked above is OK and a very good start for this feature of STP2. I also used the Soundtrack Pro 2 book by Martin Sitter, 2008 (ISBN 13:978-0-321-50266-7) to learn the basics of the program when I first got FCS2. As always, good results can be obtained if you understand exactly how to use the tools properly but next time someone asks me to do an interview under a noisy aircon unit I'll more strongly suggest another location! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; March 6th, 2009 at 10:47 AM.

March 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM	#4
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	My message was too brief....to use the noise reduction tool in Soundtrack is a two step process, you sample the noise (find a couple of seconds that is just the noise you want to remove with nothing else going on), click on process > noise reduction>set noise print. Then select everything and click on process > noise reduction >reduce noise. A box will open with some perameters you can experiment with, you can preview the result or preview the noise to be sure you're not cutting out the content, then click apply..../bvaughan

March 6th, 2009, 09:37 AM	#8
Jason Livingston Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 71	In my experience the noise removal filter in Soundtrack Pro is junk. With any noticeable noise reduction comes even more noticeable artifacting (gurgling or warbling). If you tweak the filter parameters enough to remove the artifacts then the noise is hardly reduced at all. The one in Adobe Soundbooth is MUCH better. It can remove a lot more noise before any artifacting becomes noticeable. But I remember getting even better results back with CoolEdit in 1995.

March 6th, 2009, 02:57 PM	#12
David Knaggs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 826	Thanks Batlle, Andy and everyone else for the interesting points of view. I get excellent results with Noise Reduction in STP (Soundtrack Pro) when it's a constantly repeating sound, such as air conditioning, and the speaker has a strong enough voice (usually meaning the boom mic is fairly close to their mouth). No gurgling/burbling and a complete removal of the background noise. But in other circumstances, such as a master shot with a number of actors (meaning the boom mic is not able to be very close), and the background noise is not constantly repeating (such as traffic), I definitely prefer the Channel EQ filter. Channel EQ gives you a moving visual graph of the frequencies and it's pretty easy to see the frequency range of each voice plus the range of the background noise and you can then manipulate your curve accordingly. That filter has "saved the day" for me on many occasions. STP also has excellent facilities for ADR, when you get down to that last resort (although I guess that would mostly be an option for drama-type work, rather than things such as ENG). On the whole, I find STP to be an incredibly powerful application (I found the training DVD put out by Ripple Training to be absolutely brilliant) but feel that its specific Noise Reduction tool could really do with an upgrade (more versatile algorithms). Which is why I'm interested in hearing about the effectiveness of other applications or plug-ins with noise reduction capabilities.