Why does FCP crash? at DVinfo.net

Scott Brickert · February 8th, 2009, 11:09 PM

I read so much about how stable this version of FCP is (6.0.5). I'm not pushing it too hard...a two camera shoot, two layers of video, four channels of audio. I captured the HDV via iMovie into AIC. Is this a problem? I wanted to keep editing in FCP whilst capturing.

So, apply some color correction (which means the 3-way and select a point for each). Some dissolves, some audio volume adjustments. The sequence setting match the clip settings. RAW files sit on a Samsung Spinpoint 1TB inside the MacPro Octo 2.8GHz with 6GB of ram.

Playing back from the timeline, it hangs, stutters, then disappears off the desktop.

Where should I be looking for problems?

Perrone Ford · February 8th, 2009, 11:16 PM

I am not a mac editor but why on EARTH are you fooling with AIC? Use ProRes and stop shooting you own foot..

Shaun Roemich · February 9th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Brickert

I captured the HDV via iMovie into AIC. Is this a problem? I wanted to keep editing in FCP whilst capturing.

Do you mean you have iMovie and FCP open at the same time on the same machine??? If so, THAT is a problem, if not THE problem...

Jeremy Doyle · February 9th, 2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Do you mean you have iMovie and FCP open at the same time on the same machine??? If so, THAT is a problem, if not THE problem...

Both programs will be trying to recognize the deck or camera you are capturing from.

William Hohauser · February 9th, 2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Brickert

I read so much about how stable this version of FCP is (6.0.5).

I'm not pushing it too hard...a two camera shoot, two layers of video, four channels of audio.

I captured the HDV via iMovie into AIC. Is this a problem? I wanted to keep editing in FCP whilst capturing.

You are pushing it too hard. The same system resources are being grabbed by the two programs at the same time. Most NLE applications that I know of couldn't work like this either. A server based edit system that you would find at a major television station (costing tens of thousands of dollars minimum) could do what you ask but not a single workstation.

Also, use ProRes in FCP.

Scott Brickert · February 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Just for clarification:

I had no problems, at the time, running iMovie to capture the footage while editing in FCP. This situation arises while playing back the captured footage in a sequence in FCP. iMovie is not open.

It's a repeatable situation. The report says thread 34 crashed:

Process: Final Cut Pro 350
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Identifier: com.apple.FinalCutPro
Version: 6.0.5 (6.0.5)
Build Info: FCPApp-810171515~24
Code Type: X86 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd 123

Date/Time: 2009-02-09 12:05:05.528 -0700
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G55)
Report Version: 6

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000054285000
Crashed Thread: 34

Thread 34 Crashed:
0 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bec4505 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 31675
1 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bebe5b7 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 7277
2 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bebda06 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 4284
3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90b09095 _pthread_start + 321
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90b08f52 thread_start + 34

Any ideas?

The last time I tried capturing to ProRes on the MBP's eSata drive, it crashed so hard I had to buy Disk Warrior to repair the drive. Maybe I could capture to AIC via iMovie, then batch convert to ProRes in Compressor.

Perrone Ford · February 9th, 2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Brickert

The last time I tried capturing to ProRes on the MBP's eSata drive, it crashed so hard I had to buy Disk Warrior to repair the drive.

Since I am sure that hundreds, if not thousands of people do this weekly or monthly, seems like you might have underlying issues that need to be resolved.

William Hohauser · February 9th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Now that we have pinpointed the times the crash happens we can try to figure out what is happening.

Try to play the AIC files first in QuickTime and then in iMovie. If there are playback problems then the problem lies in the hard drive as somehow the video files are getting corrupted either in the capture process or the playback process. Do you have problems with regular DV or HDV files? If not then the AIC process is possibly the culprit. Or possibly your drive isn't working properly (bad formatting or defective hardware) and it can't handle the data rates that AIC and ProRes require. There are firmware problems with some eSata adaptors on MBPs, check to see if there is a firmware upgrade for your model. That might be the entire issue. You might have to return the adaptor and get a different one.

If you don't get an AIC crash during QuickTime or iMovie playback we can assume the problem is in FCP. Do the files crash while playing in the FCP browser or while on the timeline? Before trying the files again make sure that the timeline settings are the same as the footage.

If it crashes again, trash the FCP prefs and restart the computer. Try the files again, if you get another crash you should re-install FCP completely.

Mathieu Ghekiere · February 9th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Changing the RAM?
I had programs crash on me a lot, and changing the RAM solved it...

Scott Brickert · February 10th, 2009, 10:30 PM

The sequence settings match the clip settings, and the files reside on a hard drive inside the MacPro. There is no eSata connection. In a later reply i clarified that iMovie was not open while editing in FCP.

It turns out there was a problem with the original footage. I got around it by slicing the clip on the timeline at the problem frame and rolling back both sides, then rolling the upper footage over the gap. This allowed smooth playback on the timeline and a good render.

When I played the clip in QT, it did stutter and stall at the offending frame, but did not crash. I hit Pause, then Play. The audio played smoothly, but the video stuttered and seemed to catch. Hitting Pause and Play again, it regained smooth replay.

Is a SATA II drive rated at 3GB/s connected to the main bus inside the MacPro providing a sufficient data rate for editing AIC or ProRes?
According to this (http://www.caldigit.com/support/CalDigit-Stream.jpg) on CalDigit's website, ProResHQ requires 31MB/s per stream, which seems well under what the drive can deliver.

Maybe it was a bad capture/dropped frame/glitch in the clip. Or do i need to be looking at a RAID0 solution for editing ProRes/ProResHQ/AIC?

Melvyn Nicholls · February 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM

download final cut rescue and see if it works after that

Noah Kadner · February 10th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Scott-

I'd personally never advocate capture in iMovie and edit in FCP- the files are internally optimized differently which is probably what's causing your kernel panic. iMovie and FCP are not designed in any way shape or form to complement each other- they exist in different Apple universes and little if any testing is done between the two.

Capture directly from your camera into FCP and your problems should disappear. There's no reason to be capturing in iMovie if you intend to edit in FCP.

Also again not to keep beating a dead horse but it's quite possible that by having FCP open while you were capturing in iMovie you caused glitches all over your captured media that are choking FCP when you try to play back, by confusing the Firewire bus. Which is why it really wouldn't matter if iMovie were closed as you tried to edit in FCP- the damage is already done and you've created unusable captured media. The fact that you have more than ample drive specs and it chokes QT Player as well would support this theory. So recapture from scratch in FCP and edit in FCP, leave iMovie alone. And leave out Disk Warrior as well- it only mucks up the waters even further and can easily create unusable media. I've had Macs on and off since 1984 and I've never had any use for Disk Warrior.

Also leave out AIC- it's an old codec that has no place in a present-day workflow. You can capture to ProRes or edit native HDV depending on your camera. Which brings me to- you never said which camera you were capturing from, that would help a lot to diagnose your problem further.

Noah

Shaun Roemich · February 11th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Scott, in your last post you suggest that it is possible that the clip was corrupted, perhaps while capturing, perhaps while you had two similar applications open which a number of us have suggested is a bad thing to do.

Indulge those who are taking their time to help you by capturing your footage without multitasking and see if your problem clears up. If not, then we have successfully eliminated one of the possible causes of your issue and can move forward to try something else.

William Hohauser · February 11th, 2009, 03:41 PM

You mentioned "eSata" not anyone else. The only way a MBP is going to have eSATA is by an external connection thru an ExpressCard. A MBP has an internal SerialATA drive which is different. Therefore anyone experienced with a MBP is going to assume that you have an external eSata drive.

Now that we finally know that you are capturing to your internal drive all of your problems are very clear now. The files sizes you are trying to capture are big for the internal drive to operate efficiently 100% of the time. It has a number of tasks to do while you are capturing. Lower bandwidth files like DV don't have as much problem going to the internal drive although I would avoid it.

Get an external FireWire800 drive and a FireWire800 ExpressCard to attach it to and you should stop having these problems.

February 8th, 2009, 11:09 PM	#1
Scott Brickert Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Crested Butte, CO Posts: 576	Why does FCP crash? I read so much about how stable this version of FCP is (6.0.5). I'm not pushing it too hard...a two camera shoot, two layers of video, four channels of audio. I captured the HDV via iMovie into AIC. Is this a problem? I wanted to keep editing in FCP whilst capturing. So, apply some color correction (which means the 3-way and select a point for each). Some dissolves, some audio volume adjustments. The sequence setting match the clip settings. RAW files sit on a Samsung Spinpoint 1TB inside the MacPro Octo 2.8GHz with 6GB of ram. Playing back from the timeline, it hangs, stutters, then disappears off the desktop. Where should I be looking for problems? __________________ Scott Shot-By-Scott

February 8th, 2009, 11:16 PM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I am not a mac editor but why on EARTH are you fooling with AIC? Use ProRes and stop shooting you own foot.. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

February 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#6
Scott Brickert Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Crested Butte, CO Posts: 576	Just for clarification: I had no problems, at the time, running iMovie to capture the footage while editing in FCP. This situation arises while playing back the captured footage in a sequence in FCP. iMovie is not open. It's a repeatable situation. The report says thread 34 crashed: Process: Final Cut Pro 350 Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro Identifier: com.apple.FinalCutPro Version: 6.0.5 (6.0.5) Build Info: FCPApp-810171515~24 Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: launchd 123 Date/Time: 2009-02-09 12:05:05.528 -0700 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G55) Report Version: 6 Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000054285000 Crashed Thread: 34 Thread 34 Crashed: 0 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bec4505 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 31675 1 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bebe5b7 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 7277 2 ...pple.AppleIntermediateCodec 0x0bebda06 iCodecDecompressorComponentDispatch + 4284 3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90b09095 _pthread_start + 321 4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90b08f52 thread_start + 34 Any ideas? The last time I tried capturing to ProRes on the MBP's eSata drive, it crashed so hard I had to buy Disk Warrior to repair the drive. Maybe I could capture to AIC via iMovie, then batch convert to ProRes in Compressor. __________________ Scott Shot-By-Scott Last edited by Scott Brickert; February 9th, 2009 at 01:21 PM. Reason: revisions

February 9th, 2009, 05:33 PM	#8
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Now that we have pinpointed the times the crash happens we can try to figure out what is happening. Try to play the AIC files first in QuickTime and then in iMovie. If there are playback problems then the problem lies in the hard drive as somehow the video files are getting corrupted either in the capture process or the playback process. Do you have problems with regular DV or HDV files? If not then the AIC process is possibly the culprit. Or possibly your drive isn't working properly (bad formatting or defective hardware) and it can't handle the data rates that AIC and ProRes require. There are firmware problems with some eSata adaptors on MBPs, check to see if there is a firmware upgrade for your model. That might be the entire issue. You might have to return the adaptor and get a different one. If you don't get an AIC crash during QuickTime or iMovie playback we can assume the problem is in FCP. Do the files crash while playing in the FCP browser or while on the timeline? Before trying the files again make sure that the timeline settings are the same as the footage. If it crashes again, trash the FCP prefs and restart the computer. Try the files again, if you get another crash you should re-install FCP completely. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

February 9th, 2009, 05:33 PM	#9
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Changing the RAM? I had programs crash on me a lot, and changing the RAM solved it... __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

February 10th, 2009, 10:30 PM	#10
Scott Brickert Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Crested Butte, CO Posts: 576	The sequence settings match the clip settings, and the files reside on a hard drive inside the MacPro. There is no eSata connection. In a later reply i clarified that iMovie was not open while editing in FCP. It turns out there was a problem with the original footage. I got around it by slicing the clip on the timeline at the problem frame and rolling back both sides, then rolling the upper footage over the gap. This allowed smooth playback on the timeline and a good render. When I played the clip in QT, it did stutter and stall at the offending frame, but did not crash. I hit Pause, then Play. The audio played smoothly, but the video stuttered and seemed to catch. Hitting Pause and Play again, it regained smooth replay. Is a SATA II drive rated at 3GB/s connected to the main bus inside the MacPro providing a sufficient data rate for editing AIC or ProRes? According to this (http://www.caldigit.com/support/CalDigit-Stream.jpg) on CalDigit's website, ProResHQ requires 31MB/s per stream, which seems well under what the drive can deliver. Maybe it was a bad capture/dropped frame/glitch in the clip. Or do i need to be looking at a RAID0 solution for editing ProRes/ProResHQ/AIC? __________________ Scott Shot-By-Scott

February 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM	#11
Melvyn Nicholls Tourist Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London/Belfast UK Posts: 2	download final cut rescue and see if it works after that

February 10th, 2009, 11:05 PM	#12
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 435	Scott- I'd personally never advocate capture in iMovie and edit in FCP- the files are internally optimized differently which is probably what's causing your kernel panic. iMovie and FCP are not designed in any way shape or form to complement each other- they exist in different Apple universes and little if any testing is done between the two. Capture directly from your camera into FCP and your problems should disappear. There's no reason to be capturing in iMovie if you intend to edit in FCP. Also again not to keep beating a dead horse but it's quite possible that by having FCP open while you were capturing in iMovie you caused glitches all over your captured media that are choking FCP when you try to play back, by confusing the Firewire bus. Which is why it really wouldn't matter if iMovie were closed as you tried to edit in FCP- the damage is already done and you've created unusable captured media. The fact that you have more than ample drive specs and it chokes QT Player as well would support this theory. So recapture from scratch in FCP and edit in FCP, leave iMovie alone. And leave out Disk Warrior as well- it only mucks up the waters even further and can easily create unusable media. I've had Macs on and off since 1984 and I've never had any use for Disk Warrior. Also leave out AIC- it's an old codec that has no place in a present-day workflow. You can capture to ProRes or edit native HDV depending on your camera. Which brings me to- you never said which camera you were capturing from, that would help a lot to diagnose your problem further. Noah

February 11th, 2009, 09:42 AM	#13
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Scott, in your last post you suggest that it is possible that the clip was corrupted, perhaps while capturing, perhaps while you had two similar applications open which a number of us have suggested is a bad thing to do. Indulge those who are taking their time to help you by capturing your footage without multitasking and see if your problem clears up. If not, then we have successfully eliminated one of the possible causes of your issue and can move forward to try something else. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

February 11th, 2009, 03:41 PM	#14
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	You mentioned "eSata" not anyone else. The only way a MBP is going to have eSATA is by an external connection thru an ExpressCard. A MBP has an internal SerialATA drive which is different. Therefore anyone experienced with a MBP is going to assume that you have an external eSata drive. Now that we finally know that you are capturing to your internal drive all of your problems are very clear now. The files sizes you are trying to capture are big for the internal drive to operate efficiently 100% of the time. It has a number of tasks to do while you are capturing. Lower bandwidth files like DV don't have as much problem going to the internal drive although I would avoid it. Get an external FireWire800 drive and a FireWire800 ExpressCard to attach it to and you should stop having these problems. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation