Cropping to widescreen format

Justin Morgan · August 15th, 2003, 10:40 AM

But does that mean it would stretch the whole 4:3 image, including the black bars at top and bottom, to fill the screen - this would result in a horizontally stretched image - as it is taking 4:3 and stretching it to fill the screen rather than taking just the widescreen picture and using that to fill the screen.

Boyd Ostroff · August 15th, 2003, 01:46 PM

Justin, on my Sony SDM-V72W 17" HD LCD there are 4 different display modes: normal, letterbox, wide zoom and zoom. When I look at a letterboxed clip and put the monitor in "zoom" mode it nearly fills the screen. There's a narrow black band at the top and bottom. Maybe my letterbox mask on the clip I'm viewing is the wrong size? But it could also be that the LCD screen's physical dimensions aren't really 16:9 (it measures 14.7" x 8.8", or a 1.67:1 aspect ratio, a bit of a disappointment).

If I use "wide zoom" instead it looks like 2.35:1 letterboxed. This is because it stretches a 4:3 image to the full width of the screen without changing the height. The "zoom" mode stretches the image in both dimensions, and I assume it exists just for the purpose of filling the screen with letterboxed video. It should be noted however that images viewed this way look noticeably softer than real 16:9 DV footage.

Devin Doyle · August 15th, 2003, 06:25 PM

Boyd - would you mind telling me the process you went thru for your res test? I shot it, captured the images in premiere as uncompressed bitmaps, then went into photoshop and exported them for the web. The 4:3 footage isn't what I'm worried about however, how can I get the 16:9 images into photoshop whilst maintaining it's aspect ratio? As of now it does the stretch to fill the whole 720x480 frame.

My workaround: I used premiere and imported the 16:9 res images into a 4:3 project. I then told premiere that their aspect was 1.2 (NTSC DV widescreen), then told the clip to maintain its aspect (thus generating black bars in premiere) and then exported as an uncompressed targa and did my magic in PS. I'm just not sure if this process is degrading the image or not. I'd like to hear about your process before spending too much time making a page for my own tests when I did them wrong in the first place! Thanks Boyd!

Boyd Ostroff · August 15th, 2003, 07:40 PM

Well I use Final Cut Pro, not Premiere. But I think it would go the same way... if you import a 16:9 image into FCP at 720x480 you just need to resize it to 954x480 to have the correct aspect ratio on a computer screen with square pixels. This is assuming anamorphic 16:9.

If you are shooting letterboxed 16:9 then first use Photoshop to crop the image to the letterbox, which should be about 720x360. Then resize to 854x480.

Does this answer your question?

Devin Doyle · August 15th, 2003, 08:03 PM

...sorta lol. My images are 720x480 with 1.2 aspect (16x9). Therefore they stretch in premiere to fill the frame in a .9 aspect (4:3) project until I tell the shots to remain in their original aspect, resulting in a 720x360 image with black bars on top and bottom. Getting the camera 16:9 images to show up in a 4:3 project without being stretched isn't the problem. I'm worried that when I export from premiere that the images are being degraded. I zoom in on the shots in PS and export from there.

Boyd Ostroff · August 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM

Sorry, I guess I don't understand. In Final Cut Pro it doesn't matter whether you set your sequence for 16:9 or 4:3. Either way, if you export a still frame as a JPEG it will be 720x480. If the original was an anamorphic 16:9 image you would need to stretch it using Photoshop to create an 854x480 image with square pixels.

Sounds like your question about image degradation is Premiere-specific and you might want to ask in the PC group?

Rob Lohman · August 20th, 2003, 06:15 AM

If you want a widescreen TV to automatically display the signal
in widescreen you must do the following:

1. crop the footage to widescreen 16:9

2. resample it back to full resolution of 720x480 or 720x576

3. when encoding the mpeg2 and authoring the DVD make sure you indicate the footage is in anamorphic format

That should take care of it. Also, make sure if you use my masks
or make your own with my calculator that you import the footage
AT THE CORRECT PIXEL ASPECT! Mostly NLE's default to a PA of
1.0 for a picture which is WRONG in this case.

August 15th, 2003, 06:25 PM	#18
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	Boyd - would you mind telling me the process you went thru for your res test? I shot it, captured the images in premiere as uncompressed bitmaps, then went into photoshop and exported them for the web. The 4:3 footage isn't what I'm worried about however, how can I get the 16:9 images into photoshop whilst maintaining it's aspect ratio? As of now it does the stretch to fill the whole 720x480 frame. My workaround: I used premiere and imported the 16:9 res images into a 4:3 project. I then told premiere that their aspect was 1.2 (NTSC DV widescreen), then told the clip to maintain its aspect (thus generating black bars in premiere) and then exported as an uncompressed targa and did my magic in PS. I'm just not sure if this process is degrading the image or not. I'd like to hear about your process before spending too much time making a page for my own tests when I did them wrong in the first place! Thanks Boyd! __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

August 15th, 2003, 08:03 PM	#20
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	...sorta lol. My images are 720x480 with 1.2 aspect (16x9). Therefore they stretch in premiere to fill the frame in a .9 aspect (4:3) project until I tell the shots to remain in their original aspect, resulting in a 720x360 image with black bars on top and bottom. Getting the camera 16:9 images to show up in a 4:3 project without being stretched isn't the problem. I'm worried that when I export from premiere that the images are being degraded. I zoom in on the shots in PS and export from there. __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

August 20th, 2003, 06:15 AM	#22
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If you want a widescreen TV to automatically display the signal in widescreen you must do the following: 1. crop the footage to widescreen 16:9 2. resample it back to full resolution of 720x480 or 720x576 3. when encoding the mpeg2 and authoring the DVD make sure you indicate the footage is in anamorphic format That should take care of it. Also, make sure if you use my masks or make your own with my calculator that you import the footage AT THE CORRECT PIXEL ASPECT! Mostly NLE's default to a PA of 1.0 for a picture which is WRONG in this case. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 15th, 2003, 10:40 AM	#16
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	But does that mean it would stretch the whole 4:3 image, including the black bars at top and bottom, to fill the screen - this would result in a horizontally stretched image - as it is taking 4:3 and stretching it to fill the screen rather than taking just the widescreen picture and using that to fill the screen.

August 15th, 2003, 01:46 PM	#17
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Justin, on my Sony SDM-V72W 17" HD LCD there are 4 different display modes: normal, letterbox, wide zoom and zoom. When I look at a letterboxed clip and put the monitor in "zoom" mode it nearly fills the screen. There's a narrow black band at the top and bottom. Maybe my letterbox mask on the clip I'm viewing is the wrong size? But it could also be that the LCD screen's physical dimensions aren't really 16:9 (it measures 14.7" x 8.8", or a 1.67:1 aspect ratio, a bit of a disappointment). If I use "wide zoom" instead it looks like 2.35:1 letterboxed. This is because it stretches a 4:3 image to the full width of the screen without changing the height. The "zoom" mode stretches the image in both dimensions, and I assume it exists just for the purpose of filling the screen with letterboxed video. It should be noted however that images viewed this way look noticeably softer than real 16:9 DV footage.

August 15th, 2003, 07:40 PM	#19
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Well I use Final Cut Pro, not Premiere. But I think it would go the same way... if you import a 16:9 image into FCP at 720x480 you just need to resize it to 954x480 to have the correct aspect ratio on a computer screen with square pixels. This is assuming anamorphic 16:9. If you are shooting letterboxed 16:9 then first use Photoshop to crop the image to the letterbox, which should be about 720x360. Then resize to 854x480. Does this answer your question?

August 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM	#21
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Sorry, I guess I don't understand. In Final Cut Pro it doesn't matter whether you set your sequence for 16:9 or 4:3. Either way, if you export a still frame as a JPEG it will be 720x480. If the original was an anamorphic 16:9 image you would need to stretch it using Photoshop to create an 854x480 image with square pixels. Sounds like your question about image degradation is Premiere-specific and you might want to ask in the PC group?