Archiving HDV Fully edited footage at DVinfo.net

Paul Gallagher · April 18th, 2008, 02:57 PM

I am editing in HDV format on the timeline with FCP but it does not give me the print to video option like on my SD projects.

I know there is not really a full proof way to make fully chaptered Blu-Ray DVD's with menus yet and I am anxious about buying a Blu-Ray burner yet as I would like an internal Super drive one for my mac pro so I wanted to ask how every-one else here backs up their finished edit.

William Hohauser · April 18th, 2008, 03:43 PM

A QuickTime movie to an external hard drive is the best way to go. You can also use Compressor to make a version of your edit to a better codec like Pro-Res or DVCProHD.

You should be able to print to HDV tape in FCP. The one drawback to this is that FCP has to re-compress the video to a HDV tape friendly format. Depending on how much image adjustment you have done to the video, there will be some additional MPEG artifacts introduced. Never done it myself. I always make files for back up.

Paul Gallagher · April 19th, 2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

A QuickTime movie to an external hard drive is the best way to go. You can also use Compressor to make a version of your edit to a better codec like Pro-Res or DVCProHD.

You should be able to print to HDV tape in FCP. The one drawback to this is that FCP has to re-compress the video to a HDV tape friendly format. Depending on how much image adjustment you have done to the video, there will be some additional MPEG artifacts introduced. Never done it myself. I always make files for back up.

How does the Pro-Res Codec make a better file, I still know nothing about it to be honest?

Nick Weeks · April 19th, 2008, 07:04 AM

If I'm not mistaking, ProRes uses 4:2:2, but I can't see the point of taking 4:2:0 HDV to 4:2:2? Maybe I'm missing something... If you originally captured in 4:2:2 I could see the benefit

I archive my complete edited project, captured media, and everything to external hard drives after I complete a project. I know I don't have to archive the original captures... etc but with FCP I've had problems before when I re-captured the footage. It would always complain about the timecode and things would sometimes get a frame or two off. Now this was a long time ago, and could very well be fixed in version 6, but I like to play it safe.

I have a line in my contract that re-edits/changes can be made up to 2 years after event, for a charge of course :) This allows me to go back and make any changes to my edit within two years and come out with the same video I had before, plus hard drives are cheap. I just bought a $50 SATA enclosure and an $80 320GB HD. No complaints

I've also used the print to tape feature with great results, but this isn't my primary archiving method.

Fred Tims · April 19th, 2008, 07:33 AM

Print to Tape works exactly the same with HDV as it does with DV. It takes a little longer as FCP must conform your footage. It works great. Edit to Tape will not work.

Paul Gallagher · April 19th, 2008, 08:38 AM

Will the print to video work with my Z1?

Benjamin Hill · April 19th, 2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Gallagher

Will the print to video work with my Z1?

Why wouldn't it- have you tried?

William Hohauser · April 19th, 2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Gallagher

How does the Pro-Res Codec make a better file, I still know nothing about it to be honest?

It doesn't always make a better file but it shouldn't make a worse one. Let's say you edited an HDV sequence with some color correction and number of titles and some transition effects. Regardless of how your computer can play them back without any rendering, all of those changes have to be rendered at some point to get onto a digital file. Rendering in HDV introduces some MPEG2 artifacts. Some you see on a decent HD monitor. The average viewer might not notice but it can be frustrating to see your work get a tiny, blocky grain in places where there wasn't any before. This because HDV is a highly compressed MPEG2 codec whereas most other HD codecs are not as compressed so there's more information to work with.

If you take Compressor and set it to Pro-Res or another HD codec, it will render those changes in that codec not HDV. If in the future you need to make an HDCam version of your edit, you can bring this Pro-Res file to a facility and get a really good master. One thing to note is that these files are much larger than a HDV file.

HDV is great and a real achievement in quality but as long as we understand it's limitations, we can use it to make excellent video.

Paul Gallagher · April 19th, 2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Hill

Why wouldn't it- have you tried?

Yes I have, and it only gives me the print to video option on a SD timeline, I will double check all of my settings and give it another try.

Benjamin Hill · April 20th, 2008, 10:03 AM

Agree with William on all these points. HDV print to tape is a PITA in my experience; best use of HDV is for acquisition and taking care of it in post with a better codec can get really good results.

Short of mastering to tape on a higher-grade format like HDCAM or DVCPROHD, exporting a QuickTime movie on either HD disk or optical disc may be your best bet.

Paul Gallagher · April 20th, 2008, 11:34 AM

The HDV codec is really ripped to shreds by the time it is compressed down to SD, its fine if I do no color correcting etc but with the wedding I am working on at the moment it has slow motion, B/W, sepia and stills in it and it is a juddery mess to be honest, If it doesn't improve I am going to have to recapture the whole thing in SD by using the camera to down convert as I would never hand this to a Bride the shape it is in.

I am using compressor at the moment to convert the timeline edit into a SD Widescreen and an XDCAM 50i to see if it does the same thing.

When I export it out as a Quicktime movie the audio and video don't match up, the audio comes in 4 seconds before the video but it is perfectly fine on the timeline, its a real headache.

Benjamin Hill · April 20th, 2008, 12:35 PM

I export HDV timelines to Compressor all the time, using various quality presets as well as customized settings, and have had great results.

There a whole bunch of variables between acquisition and delivery and personally I would try to identify/control/eliminate as many of those as possible before going the hassle of re-capturing everything.

William Hohauser · April 20th, 2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Gallagher

The HDV codec is really ripped to shreds by the time it is compressed down to SD, its fine if I do no color correcting etc but with the wedding I am working on at the moment it has slow motion, B/W, sepia and stills in it and it is a juddery mess to be honest, If it doesn't improve I am going to have to recapture the whole thing in SD by using the camera to down convert as I would never hand this to a Bride the shape it is in.

I am using compressor at the moment to convert the timeline edit into a SD Widescreen and an XDCAM 50i to see if it does the same thing.

When I export it out as a Quicktime movie the audio and video don't match up, the audio comes in 4 seconds before the video but it is perfectly fine on the timeline, its a real headache.

Something is wrong here. None of this should be happening. Is your sequence set right? This might explain why you can't print to tape as well.

Daniel Monahan · April 22nd, 2008, 11:16 AM

If you use a hard drive to archive, how long is it safe to leave the drive tucked away for?

Aric Mannion · April 22nd, 2008, 03:01 PM

Can you really print HDV to tape, the same as SD? Don't you need a kona card or something?!

April 18th, 2008, 02:57 PM	#1
Paul Gallagher Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Omagh Posts: 306	Archiving HDV Fully edited footage I am editing in HDV format on the timeline with FCP but it does not give me the print to video option like on my SD projects. I know there is not really a full proof way to make fully chaptered Blu-Ray DVD's with menus yet and I am anxious about buying a Blu-Ray burner yet as I would like an internal Super drive one for my mac pro so I wanted to ask how every-one else here backs up their finished edit.

April 18th, 2008, 03:43 PM	#2
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	A QuickTime movie to an external hard drive is the best way to go. You can also use Compressor to make a version of your edit to a better codec like Pro-Res or DVCProHD. You should be able to print to HDV tape in FCP. The one drawback to this is that FCP has to re-compress the video to a HDV tape friendly format. Depending on how much image adjustment you have done to the video, there will be some additional MPEG artifacts introduced. Never done it myself. I always make files for back up. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

April 20th, 2008, 10:03 AM	#10
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	Agree with William on all these points. HDV print to tape is a PITA in my experience; best use of HDV is for acquisition and taking care of it in post with a better codec can get really good results. Short of mastering to tape on a higher-grade format like HDCAM or DVCPROHD, exporting a QuickTime movie on either HD disk or optical disc may be your best bet. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

April 20th, 2008, 12:35 PM	#12
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	I export HDV timelines to Compressor all the time, using various quality presets as well as customized settings, and have had great results. There a whole bunch of variables between acquisition and delivery and personally I would try to identify/control/eliminate as many of those as possible before going the hassle of re-capturing everything. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

April 19th, 2008, 07:04 AM	#4
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	If I'm not mistaking, ProRes uses 4:2:2, but I can't see the point of taking 4:2:0 HDV to 4:2:2? Maybe I'm missing something... If you originally captured in 4:2:2 I could see the benefit I archive my complete edited project, captured media, and everything to external hard drives after I complete a project. I know I don't have to archive the original captures... etc but with FCP I've had problems before when I re-captured the footage. It would always complain about the timecode and things would sometimes get a frame or two off. Now this was a long time ago, and could very well be fixed in version 6, but I like to play it safe. I have a line in my contract that re-edits/changes can be made up to 2 years after event, for a charge of course :) This allows me to go back and make any changes to my edit within two years and come out with the same video I had before, plus hard drives are cheap. I just bought a $50 SATA enclosure and an $80 320GB HD. No complaints I've also used the print to tape feature with great results, but this isn't my primary archiving method.

April 19th, 2008, 07:33 AM	#5
Fred Tims Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 82	Print to Tape works exactly the same with HDV as it does with DV. It takes a little longer as FCP must conform your footage. It works great. Edit to Tape will not work.

April 19th, 2008, 08:38 AM	#6
Paul Gallagher Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Omagh Posts: 306	Will the print to video work with my Z1?

April 20th, 2008, 11:34 AM	#11
Paul Gallagher Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Omagh Posts: 306	The HDV codec is really ripped to shreds by the time it is compressed down to SD, its fine if I do no color correcting etc but with the wedding I am working on at the moment it has slow motion, B/W, sepia and stills in it and it is a juddery mess to be honest, If it doesn't improve I am going to have to recapture the whole thing in SD by using the camera to down convert as I would never hand this to a Bride the shape it is in. I am using compressor at the moment to convert the timeline edit into a SD Widescreen and an XDCAM 50i to see if it does the same thing. When I export it out as a Quicktime movie the audio and video don't match up, the audio comes in 4 seconds before the video but it is perfectly fine on the timeline, its a real headache.

April 22nd, 2008, 11:16 AM	#14
Daniel Monahan New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 24	If you use a hard drive to archive, how long is it safe to leave the drive tucked away for?

April 22nd, 2008, 03:01 PM	#15
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	Can you really print HDV to tape, the same as SD? Don't you need a kona card or something?!