Question on Log/capture FCP

[Brett OBourke]

Total rookie here, so forgive me ....

When I'm logging in FCP, I prefer to log as I'm watching and ditch takes that are no good, rather than watch, find, rewind and then log.

The problem is, I can't seem to figure out how to add logging info *after* I've made a clip. I see how to do it before, but that slows me down.

I'm sure it can be done. What buttons to push?

thanks,

B

[Bill Davis]

Brett,

The typical logging sequence is this...

After you load your tape, invoke log and capture and name the reel and the starting clip name.

Then use the JKL row of keys to operate the tape transport. J is roll backwards. L is roll forward. K in the center, pressed along with J or L is single frame forward or backwards. Tapping either J or L multiple times increases the speed of the roll. The Space Bar is start/stop.

The I key (just above JKL) sets in points.
The O key next door sets out points.

When you have an in and our point you like, hit F2 and it brings up the clip log window where you can change the clip name if you need to. (Clip names are given a sub-number that increments automatically so if you're happy with what's there, you don't need to enter anything.)

Just hit Return and the clip will be created and you're still in log and capture ready for the next clip.

After a while, all this becomes second nature and you can log clips very rapidly and efficiently - determining KEEP and DELETE scenes on the fly - without having to do anything twice.

BTW this is all in the manuel under "JKL Logging"

Hope that helps.

[Brett OBourke]

Bill,

This is exactly what I needed and didn't even know. Thanks a ton!

B

[Brett OBourke]

so, JKL no problem, but when I hit F2 (on my MacBook Pro) it justs adjusts my screen brightness. Probably not the desired function. Right now, the only way I can log is by hitting the capture now button and then escape, which puts me back where I started.

Any thoughts?

B

[Edward Carlson]

Hold the Function (Fn) key. That makes the F row do F things, instead of brightness and volume things.

[Brett OBourke]

Nice. Thanks. That works. I'm so close. I can feel it.

The only problem is the i/o keys don't seem to be doing anything. I'm able to set in and out points in a pre-exsisting clip, and I can control the camera with JKL, but it doesn't start or stop capture when I hit I or O.

B

[Edward Carlson]

I and O sets the in and out points for the clip. Then you click the Log Clip button and that puts the clip into your logging bin. Once you have logged all your clips, you click the Batch button. Then FCP takes care of the rest.

[Brett OBourke]

Got it. Tested it. Good to go.

Thanks so much for the assist.

This message board is a life (or at least major time) saver.

B

[Steve Oakley]

BTW you can turn off the dopey confirm dialog when you hit F2. its the check box that says "prompt" un check it. its such a PITA when running thru a tape to double confirm everyting. also when you name a clip and it ends in a number, FCP will auto increment, and if it ends in a letter, it will also auto increment.

unless you have very few good takes, its far more productive to just load the entire tape, or large chunks and cut them apart once they are in, its MUCH faster. also, once a clip is in a bin, you can change reel, I and O

[Mike Barber]

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

unless you have very few good takes, its far more productive to just load the entire tape, or large chunks and cut them apart once they are in, its MUCH faster. also, once a clip is in a bin, you can change reel, I and O

Steve, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. The path of capturing the tape to a single clip and cutting afterwards may seem to make sense intuitively, however it creates problems that will likely rob more time down the line than you saved from not going through the tedium of properly logging footage.

I know you can get away with this approach under certain circumstances depending on your workflow, but I would characterize this habit as bad form that should not be encouraged.

This approach may very well work for you, and if so that's fine... but Brett is obviously (and in his words) a rookie and it would behove him to learn best practices during his development and I think as peers we should encourage that. Proper form and technique lead to good work habits. Same applies to editing as it does to learning a musical instrument, dance or martial arts.

Isn't this partly what this discussion is about?

[Brian Morris]

Originally Posted by Edward Carlson

Hold the Function (Fn) key. That makes the F row do F things, instead of brightness and volume things.

You can go into sys prefs ->Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard and check the box that will make the F1, F2, etc... keys behave as such. Then you use the Fn key to change brightness, volume, etc.

[Steve Oakley]

sorry but I've been in the editing game for 20 years, 15 non linear. I've done both approaches.

its way way way faster to scan thru one long clip in the computer and cut it up into properly named clips then to do the same by shuttling around tape. order of magnitude faster. shuttling around tape is a lot slower, especially if its a HDV or DV deck. that said, HDcam, digitbeta, betaSP and 1" :) handle tape so much faster that with those formats your approach is tolerable, but with DV and HDV its just not. moving the tape around is intolerably slow and clumsy. if you use scene detection, all your clips are automatically cut up. then all you do is click thru them and label as needed. you load a 1hr tape, walk away and doing something else, come back and label everything. as long as its not all 20 sec takes, its about 10 minutes or so to label everything. you just click thru each clip. there is no way you can shuttle tape around as fast as you can click thru shots on the computer, no way.

OTH, logging the tape as you go, a 1hr tape can take 2hrs of sitting in front of the machine doing nothing except that job, then load the shots which could take another hr totalling 3hrs

which is better - 3hrs or 1hr unattended + 15-30 minutes sitting in front of the machine ?

I'm NOT saying don't name it once its in. I'm saying doing it by moving tape around is the slow and painful way. whats the point of not taking advantage of the speed of your NLE.

then you should consider some projects aren't even worth logging. if I have 1-2 hrs of material with not a lot to cut out, logging it is a total waste of time. load, cut it, and send it on its way. label clips as you might need to, but if its a fairly linear edit, nothing to be gained by doing it the painful way.

I don't think you can even argue HD space ( except uncompressed HD ). given a 500G HD for $100 or so, thats a lot of space. I currently have a project with 30hrs of material thats living on a single 320G drive. since it was shot on HDV, I had to suffer thru logging it from tape which took 2 full weeks in front of the machine. if FCP HDV capture actually worked right, I could of did the same thing in 1 week by loading first, and labeling once in. the junk bits I took in would not of mattered in the least. even some of those points about FCP getting a little slower are really moot once you get onto a G5 or intel machine.

[Edward Carlson]

I personally have been taught to log everything, even if I don't have to cut out a lot. If I have a tape of a concert that lasts the whole hour I log it a little differently. I put the tape in, open the Log and Capture window, hit K to get the end TC, mark out, then manually type in 500 for the in point. I always record 5 seconds of bars because FCP needs 3 second pre- and post-roll, so I know that the footage starts at 5 seconds. Then I type in the tape name and give the clip a name. I always log just in case I need to re-capture later. That way I have a tape name and timecode which makes it a whole lot easier later.
My school started a film and media class, and the teacher doesn't teach "good style" in logging and capturing. When I sit down to help a kid with a project and everything is named Untitled1, Untitled2, I make them name the clips so they know what it is. No one understands why until I show them the media folder with eighteen Untitled1 files, then they get it.

[Bill Davis]

For the sake of argument, what if you're BOTH right?

My opinion is that on some projects I think it's best to capture large chunks and do the selects after capture.

And on other projects it's best to log and capture scene by scene.

By my way of thinking, it's a matter of how critical creativity will be in the assembly of the final piece.

I typically log and capture scene by scene. Not because it's faster or slower, but because if the project will require creative treatment, all the time I spend logging individual scenes I consider time spent getting to intimately know the scope, variety and personality of the various shots and takes that are going to make up my program. With those projects that time is CRITICAL if I'm to make the best possible project.

I wouldn't trade spending time looking at each and every scene and frame and making notes all over the place of what I discover about the actual shots - particularly since these days I often have others shooting for me and I might be busy directing or doing something other than just watching the monitor doing the shoot.

But some projects don't require that level of mental investment.

If I've just come back with six takes of a CEO taking head, there's no reason to waste time capturing take by take. So I just grab the whole sequence and cut it up on the timeline.

So for me, the approach is tied to the NATURE of the project - not a universal way of doing things.

Perhaps its the difference between a PRODUCTION approach and a CREATIVE approach.

Big grabs are often more conducive for production efficiency. While painstaking scene by scene L&C is best to REALLY get to know what you have to work with later.

Both perfectly defensible approaches.

FWIW.

[John C. Plunkett]

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

For the sake of argument, what if you're BOTH right?

True. I know in what I do I have to bulk capture my footage because even though there are shots I don't need and most likely won't use, there are always times when a last minute change is requested and having the raw footage already captured saves a lot of time when I'm forced to go back through it.