Canon XL & XH 24F, 25F, 30F capture in FCP / FCE

Ray Joyce · August 13th, 2006, 12:18 AM

I understand that there is a problem (very slow) in editing HD1 footage in FCP.
Lumiere say that they now support the Canon XL HD1 but are unable to output direct back to the camera. Surely is not the output code the same as the Sony Z1 1080i?
I would like to migrate to FCP but not if there is a problem with the HD1 footage.

Any ideas folks?

Ray

Han Savelkoel · August 23rd, 2006, 04:38 AM

I had very bad experiences with Lumiere HD. In stead you better use DVHS-cap and MPEG Streamclip (both free available).
Testeing befor changing your workflow is strongly advised.

Steve Nunez · November 6th, 2006, 05:38 PM

How are you guys editing the 24/30f footage in FCP 5.1?
What sequence presets or are you treating it as normal 1080i60?

(Camera: Canon XH A1)
Thank guys.

Shane Ross · November 8th, 2006, 02:14 AM

FCP 5.1.2 has presets for the Canon 24F setting...

Dave Perry · November 8th, 2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

FCP 5.1.2 has presets for the Canon 24F setting...

And to add to that, the 24f preset can be adjusted to 30f and saved as a custom Easy Setup.

Steve Nunez · November 8th, 2006, 06:36 AM

Perfect- thanks for that info- good to know.

Steve Nunez · November 11th, 2006, 08:04 PM

Dave- I've duplicated the 24F seq preset but I can't make a Quicktime Compressor setting that matches for the sequence in FCP 5.1- so the video frame doesn't match......oddly enough I'm using a standard 1080i60 seq preset and I can edit w/o problem but I'm guessing this is NOT the ideal setup....FCP gives the option for 24F but not 30F- how are you guys editing the 30f stuff?

Evan Fisher · November 18th, 2006, 01:40 PM

I am using FCP 5.04 (waiting for my crossgrade from Apple) and am starting a new project that was shot on Canon XL H1s at 24F. Will my current software support this camera? If not, is there something I can download that will help? Do I just need to wait for my crossgrade (this is what I've heard)?

Thanks.

Nate Weaver · November 18th, 2006, 03:41 PM

Just gonna have to wait.

MPEGSTREAMCLIP can get things working, but the path takes lots of transcoding time and recompresses your material. If you can wait, do it.

Harry Bromley-Davenport · November 18th, 2006, 05:26 PM

However, if you DO choose to go via MPEG Streamclip, you can transcode it into DVCProHD and make life easier for yourself while editing by avaoiding HDV altogether - although you will then have large files (about 1 gig per minute).

I recently did this with a low budget feature shot XLH1 at 24f and it looks terrific. I used the SDI port on the Canon and went into a Blackmagic card.

If you want to take this further I will send you my workflow, or you can look it up in one of my posts of a few months ago.

Best wishes,

Harry.

Larry Huntington · November 28th, 2006, 01:02 AM

Has anyone noticed a stobe-like or almost studdering look when viewing 1080 24f footage that is moving, especially when viewing on a SD-DVD with the A1? It's almost annoying- like I have chosen the wrong frame rate out of the timeline. When exporting 24f footage from FCP to QT for DVD Studio Pro, should I keep the frame rate 24, 23.98, or 29.97? And when I plan on exporting 60i footage from a 1080i60 timeline, what is the ideal frame rate to export for SD-DVD? Maybe this is an inhearent trait of 24f, but I just want to make sure I have my settings correct.

note: I had NR1 selected in the custom preset of the camera. I don't see ghosting, but do you think NR1 could be partially responsible for this stobe-like studder effect?

Pete Bauer · November 28th, 2006, 12:55 PM

Do you mean a stutter during pans and tilts, or with a fixed frame but the subject moving a lot within the frame? Is it in the original clip, or only in rendered files?

I ask those questions because one possible explanation is panning with image stabilization on. I did that with the XH A1 recently and was surprised after I captured the footage how much a hand-held pan stuttered due to the image stabilization, the same as if I was panning on a tripod. Not a fault of the camera, as the image stabilization was doing what it was meant to do, but a reminder that it isn't really best to do steady pans and tilts using image stab.

Don't know if that explains your problem, but thought it was worth a shot.

Larry Huntington · November 28th, 2006, 01:04 PM

It's a studder during pans and tilts and on the original tape and on the timeline.
Maybe it is the image stabilizer??? It's almost like a jumpiness every 1/2 second or so.

I'll try pans and tilts w/o IS on.

thanks pete

Steve Rosen · January 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM

I have a client, an agency, that has actually asked for a 24p look for a commercial... My plan is to shoot 24f HDV and edit in the FCP 24p timeline (in order to have a HD version available for possible future use) - no problem with that, I've done it with success and exported mpeg_2 files for DVD using Compressor... (But I have not played with 24f all that much).

This project, however, needs to be delivered in BetaSP for local television stations. The post house where I have my dubs made does not have the ability to play a 24f HDV tape, so I will need to output SD to DVCAM.

I know I can copy the edit and paste it in to a 60i SD timeline in order to add the pulldown, then redo the graphics, and Print to Video...

Is there a better workflow option (FCP) to output a 24p project?

Chris Hurd · January 2nd, 2007, 11:09 AM

Moved from XL H1 to FCP.

August 13th, 2006, 12:18 AM	#16
Ray Joyce Tourist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4	Lumiere & Canon XL HD1 - HDV I understand that there is a problem (very slow) in editing HD1 footage in FCP. Lumiere say that they now support the Canon XL HD1 but are unable to output direct back to the camera. Surely is not the output code the same as the Sony Z1 1080i? I would like to migrate to FCP but not if there is a problem with the HD1 footage. Any ideas folks? Ray

August 23rd, 2006, 04:38 AM	#17
Han Savelkoel New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: meerkerk, netherlands Posts: 19	bad experiences with Lumiere I had very bad experiences with Lumiere HD. In stead you better use DVHS-cap and MPEG Streamclip (both free available). Testeing befor changing your workflow is strongly advised.

November 6th, 2006, 05:38 PM	#18
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	What seq. preset for Canon 24F/30F HDV? How are you guys editing the 24/30f footage in FCP 5.1? What sequence presets or are you treating it as normal 1080i60? (Camera: Canon XH A1) Thank guys. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 8th, 2006, 06:36 AM	#21
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Perfect- thanks for that info- good to know. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 11th, 2006, 08:04 PM	#22
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Dave- I've duplicated the 24F seq preset but I can't make a Quicktime Compressor setting that matches for the sequence in FCP 5.1- so the video frame doesn't match......oddly enough I'm using a standard 1080i60 seq preset and I can edit w/o problem but I'm guessing this is NOT the ideal setup....FCP gives the option for 24F but not 30F- how are you guys editing the 30f stuff? __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 8th, 2006, 02:14 AM	#19
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	FCP 5.1.2 has presets for the Canon 24F setting...

November 18th, 2006, 01:40 PM	#23
Evan Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 137	FCP 5 and Canon XL H1 I am using FCP 5.04 (waiting for my crossgrade from Apple) and am starting a new project that was shot on Canon XL H1s at 24F. Will my current software support this camera? If not, is there something I can download that will help? Do I just need to wait for my crossgrade (this is what I've heard)? Thanks. __________________ Fisher Media Productions

November 18th, 2006, 03:41 PM	#24
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Just gonna have to wait. MPEGSTREAMCLIP can get things working, but the path takes lots of transcoding time and recompresses your material. If you can wait, do it. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 18th, 2006, 05:26 PM	#25
Harry Bromley-Davenport Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: LA CA Posts: 317	However, if you DO choose to go via MPEG Streamclip, you can transcode it into DVCProHD and make life easier for yourself while editing by avaoiding HDV altogether - although you will then have large files (about 1 gig per minute). I recently did this with a low budget feature shot XLH1 at 24f and it looks terrific. I used the SDI port on the Canon and went into a Blackmagic card. If you want to take this further I will send you my workflow, or you can look it up in one of my posts of a few months ago. Best wishes, Harry.

November 28th, 2006, 01:02 AM	#26
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	Canon XH-A1 24f to SD-DVD questions... Has anyone noticed a stobe-like or almost studdering look when viewing 1080 24f footage that is moving, especially when viewing on a SD-DVD with the A1? It's almost annoying- like I have chosen the wrong frame rate out of the timeline. When exporting 24f footage from FCP to QT for DVD Studio Pro, should I keep the frame rate 24, 23.98, or 29.97? And when I plan on exporting 60i footage from a 1080i60 timeline, what is the ideal frame rate to export for SD-DVD? Maybe this is an inhearent trait of 24f, but I just want to make sure I have my settings correct. note: I had NR1 selected in the custom preset of the camera. I don't see ghosting, but do you think NR1 could be partially responsible for this stobe-like studder effect?

November 28th, 2006, 12:55 PM	#27
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Do you mean a stutter during pans and tilts, or with a fixed frame but the subject moving a lot within the frame? Is it in the original clip, or only in rendered files? I ask those questions because one possible explanation is panning with image stabilization on. I did that with the XH A1 recently and was surprised after I captured the footage how much a hand-held pan stuttered due to the image stabilization, the same as if I was panning on a tripod. Not a fault of the camera, as the image stabilization was doing what it was meant to do, but a reminder that it isn't really best to do steady pans and tilts using image stab. Don't know if that explains your problem, but thought it was worth a shot. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

November 28th, 2006, 01:04 PM	#28
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	It's a studder during pans and tilts and on the original tape and on the timeline. Maybe it is the image stabilizer??? It's almost like a jumpiness every 1/2 second or so. I'll try pans and tilts w/o IS on. thanks pete

January 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM	#29
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Canon 24f workflow question I have a client, an agency, that has actually asked for a 24p look for a commercial... My plan is to shoot 24f HDV and edit in the FCP 24p timeline (in order to have a HD version available for possible future use) - no problem with that, I've done it with success and exported mpeg_2 files for DVD using Compressor... (But I have not played with 24f all that much). This project, however, needs to be delivered in BetaSP for local television stations. The post house where I have my dubs made does not have the ability to play a 24f HDV tape, so I will need to output SD to DVCAM. I know I can copy the edit and paste it in to a 60i SD timeline in order to add the pulldown, then redo the graphics, and Print to Video... Is there a better workflow option (FCP) to output a 24p project?

January 2nd, 2007, 11:09 AM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Moved from XL H1 to FCP. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!