Dual 1.42 or G5 1.8? at DVinfo.net

Al Smith · June 24th, 2003, 12:24 PM

I am in desperate need of an upgrade right now. I currently have a G4 450 single that I have totally outgrown and with FCP 4 here, I need to step it up. What would be better to upgrade to: Dual 1.42 or G5 1.8? Do the dual proc. make a hugh difference in performance over a single? And do you think the G5 single will be faster than the G4 dual 1.42? I have to choose between the two as I only have about $2K to sink into another Mac.

Thanks for the input.
Al

Ken Tanaka · June 24th, 2003, 01:52 PM

Hi Al,
"Deperate" is a very powerful situation! But I think we all know the feeling.

Traditionally, the sweet spot for greatest computer value lies in the previous high-end models. The dual processor systems do seem to add perhaps 25-50% to overall performance, depending on the task. I have recently been compressing video with both my 1GHz PowerBook and my Dual 1GHz Power Mac desktop and have noted that the desktop completes the same job in just over half the time of the PB.

My choice with your budget might be the dual 1.25GHz Power Mac (currently $1600), then adding memory from a 3rd-party source to bring it to at least 1Gb.

Jenn Kramer · June 24th, 2003, 02:40 PM

For future upgradability the new systems have considerably faster internal busses, which will probably make quite a big difference in performance down the road. The last generation G4 was really hobbled by it's slow processor bus. The price on older machines probably took quite a tumble with the announcement, though, so you might be able pick one up that's reasonably loaded for not that much money. In my experience dual processors really help in smoothing out the computing experience. Things just don't suddenly get slow, like they can on a single processor system.

On the other hand, a really fast single processor and really fast memory busses (with lots of memory) should smoke. You can get the 1.8 ghz machine for $2200 if you drop the superdrive for a combo drive, and then another 512 meg of ram will run you $120 from Crucial. That'll be a pretty fast box, and should be reasonably upgradable in the future. If you pack that puppy full of ram, it should scream.

I'm a bit partial to 'new toys', but the old G4's are certainly getting into 'value' territory, and you might be able to pick one up even cheaper on eBay (which could be a really good deal if you can find one with a 3 year applecare plan).

Jeff Price · June 25th, 2003, 11:38 AM

A glance at the Apple store shows the dual 1.42 as no longer being available. They are probably still in the pipeline in some places but look to be getting scarce.

On the other hand, similar configurations of a dual 1.25 and the new dual 2 (same RAM, similar hard disk gb) shows the new computer at only a few hundred dollars more.

There have been various benchmarks floating around, some of which showed the single low-end G5 as being faster than the dual 1.42. The problem with many of these is that they aren't real world. Ideally you want to see some benchmarks for rendering, real-time preview, etc.

David Slingerland · June 26th, 2003, 11:49 AM

my question to you all is why should I go for the mac and not for a top-pc?
I have final cut pro 3 and i like it but i have to do it on a imac 700(G3).
So I want to buy a new computer but the PC offers so many possibilities.
Possibilities like getting used to editing on AVIDdv. But i have always been a great fan of mac, so any good or bad arguments for pc and mac?

Mark Richman · June 26th, 2003, 12:12 PM

I love Apples but my budget loves PC's.

FCP is sweet. And the Dual 1.42 and 1.25 are looking sweet.

However, there is this little program called Vegas and it's a "spanker". Sony just bought the software assets from Sonic Foundry. Maybe you have heard of their sound programs Acid, SoundForge, etc...

I see a Sony vs. Apple battle lining up.

Things are getting exciting for video.

Mark

Michel Brewer · June 26th, 2003, 09:48 PM

you might also notice that the refurbished products on the apple website shows no product perhaps in 3 weeks you may be seeing g4's at very good prices and with warrantys....

might be worth the wait

Ken Tanaka · June 26th, 2003, 10:10 PM

PowerMax is also worth looking at. They do a very brisk trade-in business and often have good prices on last-gen systems. I've done business with them in the past and would not hesitate to do so prospectively. Good folks.

Jim Shields · June 27th, 2003, 09:41 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Slingerland : my question to you all is why should I go for the mac and not for a top-pc?
I have final cut pro 3 and i like it but i have to do it on a imac 700(G3).
So I want to buy a new computer but the PC offers so many possibilities.
Possibilities like getting used to editing on AVIDdv. But i have always been a great fan of mac, so any good or bad arguments for pc and mac? -->>>

A high end PC may be comparable real-world performance wise and price wise (I've seen this debated elsewhere recently, with both sides making good points, and I'm not trying to start any flamewar on this...) but there's a big cost in switching platforms, in either direction. You've got thousand dollar software for the mac, just in FCP, and if you have AE, Photoshop, etc you'll have to get the windows versions of all of those, plus Avid Xpress, which is something like $1500. If you get the new mac, you can keep all the software you currently have and simply install it in the new machine.

Plus, the upgrade to FCP4 is relatively cheap, and by most accounts it rules. And there are a lot of people saying that Avid Xpress doesn't compare to FCP. FCP is more in line with Avid's "lower end" high end systems, like symphony.

Craig Weinstein · June 30th, 2003, 11:03 AM

Hey,

I use the same 450MHz AGP G4 Powermac and I'm totally in love with the new G5's also.

Since I've sunk so much money into my camera equipment, however, I'm planning on making this machine work for me a while longer with a Sonnet 1.2 Ghz G4 chip upgrade.

I'm still stuck with the slow 100MHz system bus, but along with the 4-drive RAID system and 1.5GB ram, I think it'll be enough to get the job done through an FCP4 upgrade.

It's just a thought to consider. I have no hard performance numbers to tell you but it is a $530 upgrade vs. a $2000 brand-new machine. I've already got a lot of dedicated hardware upgrades in my Powermac so it makes more economical sense in my case.

I will eventually buy a G5 Powermac to replace my current machine, but probably not until they've gone 3.0GHz or higher.

My $0.02,

Craig Weinstein

June 24th, 2003, 12:24 PM	#1
Al Smith New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Jersey Posts: 14	Dual 1.42 or G5 1.8? I am in desperate need of an upgrade right now. I currently have a G4 450 single that I have totally outgrown and with FCP 4 here, I need to step it up. What would be better to upgrade to: Dual 1.42 or G5 1.8? Do the dual proc. make a hugh difference in performance over a single? And do you think the G5 single will be faster than the G4 dual 1.42? I have to choose between the two as I only have about $2K to sink into another Mac. Thanks for the input. Al __________________ Make It Happen!!!

June 24th, 2003, 01:52 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hi Al, "Deperate" is a very powerful situation! But I think we all know the feeling. Traditionally, the sweet spot for greatest computer value lies in the previous high-end models. The dual processor systems do seem to add perhaps 25-50% to overall performance, depending on the task. I have recently been compressing video with both my 1GHz PowerBook and my Dual 1GHz Power Mac desktop and have noted that the desktop completes the same job in just over half the time of the PB. My choice with your budget might be the dual 1.25GHz Power Mac (currently $1600), then adding memory from a 3rd-party source to bring it to at least 1Gb. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

June 25th, 2003, 11:38 AM	#4
Jeff Price Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chico, California Posts: 357	A glance at the Apple store shows the dual 1.42 as no longer being available. They are probably still in the pipeline in some places but look to be getting scarce. On the other hand, similar configurations of a dual 1.25 and the new dual 2 (same RAM, similar hard disk gb) shows the new computer at only a few hundred dollars more. There have been various benchmarks floating around, some of which showed the single low-end G5 as being faster than the dual 1.42. The problem with many of these is that they aren't real world. Ideally you want to see some benchmarks for rendering, real-time preview, etc. __________________ Jeff Price Flickerflix Nature Videos flickerflix@yahoo.com

June 26th, 2003, 11:49 AM	#5
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	my question to you all is why should I go for the mac and not for a top-pc? I have final cut pro 3 and i like it but i have to do it on a imac 700(G3). So I want to buy a new computer but the PC offers so many possibilities. Possibilities like getting used to editing on AVIDdv. But i have always been a great fan of mac, so any good or bad arguments for pc and mac? __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

June 26th, 2003, 12:12 PM	#6
Mark Richman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota Posts: 79	Ka ching !! I love Apples but my budget loves PC's. FCP is sweet. And the Dual 1.42 and 1.25 are looking sweet. However, there is this little program called Vegas and it's a "spanker". Sony just bought the software assets from Sonic Foundry. Maybe you have heard of their sound programs Acid, SoundForge, etc... I see a Sony vs. Apple battle lining up. Things are getting exciting for video. Mark __________________ Green Novice turning Yellow Pro Soon to be Ripe - So stand back!

June 24th, 2003, 02:40 PM	#3
Jenn Kramer Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 389 Images: 1	For future upgradability the new systems have considerably faster internal busses, which will probably make quite a big difference in performance down the road. The last generation G4 was really hobbled by it's slow processor bus. The price on older machines probably took quite a tumble with the announcement, though, so you might be able pick one up that's reasonably loaded for not that much money. In my experience dual processors really help in smoothing out the computing experience. Things just don't suddenly get slow, like they can on a single processor system. On the other hand, a really fast single processor and really fast memory busses (with lots of memory) should smoke. You can get the 1.8 ghz machine for $2200 if you drop the superdrive for a combo drive, and then another 512 meg of ram will run you $120 from Crucial. That'll be a pretty fast box, and should be reasonably upgradable in the future. If you pack that puppy full of ram, it should scream. I'm a bit partial to 'new toys', but the old G4's are certainly getting into 'value' territory, and you might be able to pick one up even cheaper on eBay (which could be a really good deal if you can find one with a 3 year applecare plan).

June 26th, 2003, 09:48 PM	#7
Michel Brewer Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ventura California Posts: 179	which one you might also notice that the refurbished products on the apple website shows no product perhaps in 3 weeks you may be seeing g4's at very good prices and with warrantys.... might be worth the wait

June 26th, 2003, 10:10 PM	#8
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	PowerMax is also worth looking at. They do a very brisk trade-in business and often have good prices on last-gen systems. I've done business with them in the past and would not hesitate to do so prospectively. Good folks. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

June 27th, 2003, 09:41 AM	#9
Jim Shields New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin Posts: 19	<<<-- Originally posted by David Slingerland : my question to you all is why should I go for the mac and not for a top-pc? I have final cut pro 3 and i like it but i have to do it on a imac 700(G3). So I want to buy a new computer but the PC offers so many possibilities. Possibilities like getting used to editing on AVIDdv. But i have always been a great fan of mac, so any good or bad arguments for pc and mac? -->>> A high end PC may be comparable real-world performance wise and price wise (I've seen this debated elsewhere recently, with both sides making good points, and I'm not trying to start any flamewar on this...) but there's a big cost in switching platforms, in either direction. You've got thousand dollar software for the mac, just in FCP, and if you have AE, Photoshop, etc you'll have to get the windows versions of all of those, plus Avid Xpress, which is something like $1500. If you get the new mac, you can keep all the software you currently have and simply install it in the new machine. Plus, the upgrade to FCP4 is relatively cheap, and by most accounts it rules. And there are a lot of people saying that Avid Xpress doesn't compare to FCP. FCP is more in line with Avid's "lower end" high end systems, like symphony.

June 30th, 2003, 11:03 AM	#10
Craig Weinstein Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Melbourne, Florida USA Posts: 35	1.2GHz chip upgrade? Hey, I use the same 450MHz AGP G4 Powermac and I'm totally in love with the new G5's also. Since I've sunk so much money into my camera equipment, however, I'm planning on making this machine work for me a while longer with a Sonnet 1.2 Ghz G4 chip upgrade. I'm still stuck with the slow 100MHz system bus, but along with the 4-drive RAID system and 1.5GB ram, I think it'll be enough to get the job done through an FCP4 upgrade. It's just a thought to consider. I have no hard performance numbers to tell you but it is a $530 upgrade vs. a $2000 brand-new machine. I've already got a lot of dedicated hardware upgrades in my Powermac so it makes more economical sense in my case. I will eventually buy a G5 Powermac to replace my current machine, but probably not until they've gone 3.0GHz or higher. My $0.02, Craig Weinstein