Buying a New Mac Pro, and word on the next step?

Gary Siu · January 4th, 2008, 06:20 AM

I've been doing quite a bit of reading on various sites, 45 nm versus current 65nm Penryn, cooler running, more effecient chips, rumoured Blue Ray, 1666 FSB, .............. "Instead of counting sheep to fall asleep, I'm counting processors......" Can anyone comment on the Mac Pro RAID card? I intend on filling all the slots with 750 GB HD's and was wondering if the extra $1000 is justified (or just go through the Leopards software in Disk Utilities?)

Robert Lane · January 8th, 2008, 10:13 AM

Gary,

As you probably know by now, the "new" MacPro is just an incremental step-up from the "old" one, and of course no Blu-Ray options yet. (I still believe it will be at least another year before that happens)

However if you haven't already purchased your new system, check eBay late today; we'll be posting one of our 8-Core systems which will be completely ready out-of-the-box for and HD edit suite.

No, we're not buying one of the "new" MacPro's we're simply getting rid of a system we don't need anymore.

Martin Pauly · January 8th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

the "new" MacPro is just an incremental step-up from the "old" one

To me, twice the number of CPU cores, a 1,600MHz frontside bus, and much much better graphics card options represent a pretty significant step up. I am still going to wait until 1/16 - there's going to be an Apple "Final Cut Pro" event, and of course it gives me a chance to review any updates presented during the keynote speach next Tuesday before I buy.

So it's been a long wait for me, but I am glad I resisted the temptation.

- Martin

Cole McDonald · January 8th, 2008, 03:12 PM

8-core (2xquad 2.8Ghz to 3.2Ghz) on the full mac pro line released today...up to 4Tb of storage...up to 32Gb of RAM!

Gary Siu · January 8th, 2008, 03:40 PM

My head is spinning in anticipation ............... MW is only a week away. So many rumors and "wishes".......... (As I sit here and wait for my Power Mac G5 quad to render this 94 GB file!) ...........

Marco Dias · January 9th, 2008, 11:48 AM

With all the speculations, no one guessed that the 8th January 2008 was the new Mac Pro's day.

But I would hold off any buying until the 15th January 2008...

There might be more surprises coming up.

Gary Siu · January 9th, 2008, 04:53 PM

As this is only my second Mac (long time ex-pc user here), I've decided to wait until after Mac World. What more "Surprises" can there be though? Still wondering if the optional RAID card is a good idea (I'm currently using a 5 bay external RAID 0 enclosure vis eSATA) and was just going to use this with the new MP. Anyone have experience with this card? I've opted to upgrade the RAM to 8 GB and cut corners on the processor and get the 3.0 instead of the 3.2. (Hard to believe one can spend $24,000 if they were to build a true "Dream System!") haha

Cole McDonald · January 9th, 2008, 07:11 PM

If you need to raid, don't trust the software raid...I've lost way too much data (all backed up elsewhere, but terrabytes of data) using the software raid. If you are looking to raid stuff, get the card...HW raid will always be better than SW raid in my experience...I've used a variety of both.

Dave Morgan · January 10th, 2008, 01:39 PM

seems like they would have waited to release the new mac pro till the event.
anyone think they still might announce more more features to the mac pro at the expo?

Gary Siu · January 10th, 2008, 02:44 PM

Thanks Cole, I agree ......... "Think I just wanted someone else to agree to help justify spending another $1000 ....... so when the boss asks if it was really necessary, I can look them straight in the face and say, OF COURSE!" ;)

Robert Lane · January 10th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Gary, I would strongly *not* recommend the internal RAID card for the sole purpose of creating a RAID for the MacPro.

Apple has always done a fantastic job of creating glossy ad campaigns that make you think (and hope) that all they claim is real. And while the internal RAID card will do exactly what it's supposed to, you will not attain anywhere near the level of throughput performance that they claim. Not only that, but in order to get even close to their projected performance numbers would mean you'd have to use all 4 drives together - which means your OS would also be on the array! It's a disaster waiting to happen when the OS is made part of any array, internal or not.

If you want a real hardware RAID setup, then an external eSATA (JBOD or Infiniband only), SCSI or Fiber array is the only way to go. The reasons are too numerous to mention here.

However, there is one major benefit to adding the internal RAID card in a MacPro: It allows you to use SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) drives, which spin at 15,000rpm. Very expensive drives, yes, however if your boot drive was SAS and every other drive was also they would be the most perfect setup for not only a very fast and responsive system but the most natural place to put small, constantly changing files such as renders, waveform/thumbnail cache and stills to be used in video projects and keep these files *separated* from the main array. This prevents a highly fragmented array which over time will slow it down and make problems in fixing directory issues. That, is the only reason to get the RAID card.

Mathieu Ghekiere · January 11th, 2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morgan

seems like they would have waited to release the new mac pro till the event.
anyone think they still might announce more more features to the mac pro at the expo?

No actually I don't... maybe they will anounce a configuration option for a Blue Ray burner, or/and Blue Ray support for DVD Studio Pro, but bringing out a new model a week after officially updating it... no.

David McGiffert · January 11th, 2008, 09:48 AM

Robert,

That is great advice about moving the ..."small, constantly changing files such as renders, waveform/thumbnail cache and stills to be used in video projects" ...to a fast array.
That is one of the things I find most troublesome when media drives
begin to get alot of activity...those tons of render files etc. fragment
the disk and ultimately degrade the performance.

Thanks!

Robert Lane · January 11th, 2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McGiffert

Robert,

That is great advice about moving the ..."small, constantly changing files such as renders, waveform/thumbnail cache and stills to be used in video projects" ...to a fast array.
That is one of the things I find most troublesome when media drives
begin to get alot of activity...those tons of render files etc. fragment
the disk and ultimately degrade the performance.

Thanks!

Actually what I said (just to be sure it's not being taken out of context) is *not* to put those files on the array, but instead to keep them on a single, stand-alone but fast internal drive. It's these highly fragmented files that will cause any array to slow down which you obviously want to prevent.

Robert Lane · January 11th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

No actually I don't... maybe they will anounce a configuration option for a Blue Ray burner, or/and Blue Ray support for DVD Studio Pro, but bringing out a new model a week after officially updating it... no.

In order for DVDSP to support BR it would take more than just a simple update but rather a complete re-work of the entire application, not to mention Compressor would also need to be drastically updated/changed to support all the BR encoding options.

That means Apple would have to introduce version 5 of DVDSP as a stand-alone application outside the current offering of the FCS suite of programs. While it's impossible to know until next week what will happen, I think it highly unlikely that Apple will offer a new version of DVDSP outside of the FCS suite, and we've got another year and a half (minimum) before Apple announces end of life for FCS2. But who knows, maybe they'll announce FCS2.5 with BR. We'll all wait and see, won't we?

January 4th, 2008, 06:20 AM	#16
Gary Siu Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, BC Posts: 90	All valid points, but MacWorld is only 11 days away! YIPPEE I've been doing quite a bit of reading on various sites, 45 nm versus current 65nm Penryn, cooler running, more effecient chips, rumoured Blue Ray, 1666 FSB, .............. "Instead of counting sheep to fall asleep, I'm counting processors......" Can anyone comment on the Mac Pro RAID card? I intend on filling all the slots with 750 GB HD's and was wondering if the extra $1000 is justified (or just go through the Leopards software in Disk Utilities?)

January 8th, 2008, 03:12 PM	#19
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	8-core (2xquad 2.8Ghz to 3.2Ghz) on the full mac pro line released today...up to 4Tb of storage...up to 32Gb of RAM! __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

January 8th, 2008, 03:40 PM	#20
Gary Siu Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, BC Posts: 90	My head is spinning.................. My head is spinning in anticipation ............... MW is only a week away. So many rumors and "wishes".......... (As I sit here and wait for my Power Mac G5 quad to render this 94 GB file!) ...........

January 9th, 2008, 04:53 PM	#22
Gary Siu Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, BC Posts: 90	Optional RAID card a good idea? As this is only my second Mac (long time ex-pc user here), I've decided to wait until after Mac World. What more "Surprises" can there be though? Still wondering if the optional RAID card is a good idea (I'm currently using a 5 bay external RAID 0 enclosure vis eSATA) and was just going to use this with the new MP. Anyone have experience with this card? I've opted to upgrade the RAM to 8 GB and cut corners on the processor and get the 3.0 instead of the 3.2. (Hard to believe one can spend $24,000 if they were to build a true "Dream System!") haha

January 9th, 2008, 07:11 PM	#23
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	If you need to raid, don't trust the software raid...I've lost way too much data (all backed up elsewhere, but terrabytes of data) using the software raid. If you are looking to raid stuff, get the card...HW raid will always be better than SW raid in my experience...I've used a variety of both. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

January 8th, 2008, 10:13 AM	#17
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Gary, As you probably know by now, the "new" MacPro is just an incremental step-up from the "old" one, and of course no Blu-Ray options yet. (I still believe it will be at least another year before that happens) However if you haven't already purchased your new system, check eBay late today; we'll be posting one of our 8-Core systems which will be completely ready out-of-the-box for and HD edit suite. No, we're not buying one of the "new" MacPro's we're simply getting rid of a system we don't need anymore.

January 9th, 2008, 11:48 AM	#21
Marco Dias Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Africa Posts: 62	With all the speculations, no one guessed that the 8th January 2008 was the new Mac Pro's day. But I would hold off any buying until the 15th January 2008... There might be more surprises coming up.

January 10th, 2008, 01:39 PM	#24
Dave Morgan Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 293	i was hoping for a re-designed case and bluray seems like they would have waited to release the new mac pro till the event. anyone think they still might announce more more features to the mac pro at the expo?

January 10th, 2008, 02:44 PM	#25
Gary Siu Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, BC Posts: 90	Thanks Cole, I agree ......... "Think I just wanted someone else to agree to help justify spending another $1000 ....... so when the boss asks if it was really necessary, I can look them straight in the face and say, OF COURSE!" ;)

January 10th, 2008, 09:31 PM	#26
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Gary, I would strongly not recommend the internal RAID card for the sole purpose of creating a RAID for the MacPro. Apple has always done a fantastic job of creating glossy ad campaigns that make you think (and hope) that all they claim is real. And while the internal RAID card will do exactly what it's supposed to, you will not attain anywhere near the level of throughput performance that they claim. Not only that, but in order to get even close to their projected performance numbers would mean you'd have to use all 4 drives together - which means your OS would also be on the array! It's a disaster waiting to happen when the OS is made part of any array, internal or not. If you want a real hardware RAID setup, then an external eSATA (JBOD or Infiniband only), SCSI or Fiber array is the only way to go. The reasons are too numerous to mention here. However, there is one major benefit to adding the internal RAID card in a MacPro: It allows you to use SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) drives, which spin at 15,000rpm. Very expensive drives, yes, however if your boot drive was SAS and every other drive was also they would be the most perfect setup for not only a very fast and responsive system but the most natural place to put small, constantly changing files such as renders, waveform/thumbnail cache and stills to be used in video projects and keep these files separated from the main array. This prevents a highly fragmented array which over time will slow it down and make problems in fixing directory issues. That, is the only reason to get the RAID card.

January 11th, 2008, 09:48 AM	#28
David McGiffert Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 139	Robert, That is great advice about moving the ..."small, constantly changing files such as renders, waveform/thumbnail cache and stills to be used in video projects" ...to a fast array. That is one of the things I find most troublesome when media drives begin to get alot of activity...those tons of render files etc. fragment the disk and ultimately degrade the performance. Thanks!