HDV to 8 bit uncompressed...gone awry :( at DVinfo.net

David Scattergood · December 7th, 2007, 06:45 AM

I'm really trying to figure this one out but I've got to the stage where I can't see the wood for the trees now...and panic stations are looking for the red alert function (deliver sample later today).

I've a HDV 720p25 timeline I wish to down-convert to 8 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 before sending to compressor.
So I copy and paste my HDV timeline into this new sequence (8 bit uncompressed...). For some inexplicable reason this new timeline has blown the footage up to 4:3 (anamorphic will merely stretch this) - it looks frankly awful.
What's odd is that I did the same thing last week with a different edit and that worked fine. What's also baffling is that the original HDV 720p25 footage states 'uncompressed 8 bit pal' in the audio/video settings tab and not HDV 720p25...has this changed somehow also - are all the sequences including the original reverted to 8 bit when a new sequence with different settings are altered?

I can use the uncompressed sequence (which worked ok last week) for the time being though I'm hoping this sends SD to compressor and not HDV.

Might be a very basic FCP wrongdoing I'm carrying out here but any clues here folks would help!

Cheers.

David Scattergood · December 7th, 2007, 06:59 AM

OK...for some reason the item properties on this new out of sorts sequence state the following:

Vid rate: 25fps
Frame size: 720x 480 (!!)
Compressor: DV/DVCPRO - NTSC
Pixel Aspect: NTSC - CCIR 601

No idea why this is flipping to that format....just can't see where I put the foot down incorrectly??

Also...should the frame size of the 8 bit uncompressed state: 1280 x 720p by the way?

Thanks.

David Knaggs · December 7th, 2007, 07:18 AM

Hi David.

I have to dash out for a bit, but very quickly:

1) If you set up an Uncompressed 8-bit (or 10-bit) PAL sequence, then your frame size will become PAL (which is around 720 X 576 - or something in that vicinity). Did you set the sequence to Uncompressed NTSC by mistake?

2) If you wish to have an Uncompressed sequence with the frame size at 1280 X 720, do an easy Setup for HDV 720p25, make a new sequence, go to Sequence>Settings and on the Quicktime Video Settings Compressor, scroll to Uncompressed 8-bit (or 10-bit) 4:2:2.

I hope that helps a little.

David Scattergood · December 7th, 2007, 07:59 AM

Cheers David.

I have no idea why it reverted to NTSC...I'd tried this many times so I can discount slipped finger!

Perhaps the easy set up for 8 bit uncompressed is not really what I wished to achieve - I was following the methods for down-converting a HDV timeline into SD (then onto compressor) from this thread (creating initial HDV 720p east set up then when timeline complete cut and pasting this timeline into an uncompressed 8 bit to be sent as SD to compressor??):

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=78905

So I've just exported a HDV timeline (with the sequence preset of uncompressed 8 bit) to compressor (which has the 1280x720 frame size)...I presume if this wasn't in fact down-converted then compressor has carried this out.

Cheers David.

David Knaggs · December 7th, 2007, 08:57 AM

Hi David.

I just had a quick look at that thread. They are definitely talking about the best way to get results with INTERLACED source footage (HDV2). You are shooting PROGRESSIVE source footage (HDV1). I know that compressing and re-scaling interlaced footage can at times be quite tricky, but those steps don't always have to be done with progressive footage.

It just depends on the end result you are after.

If you are intending to send it on to Compressor, are you intending to make DVD assets and/or a web movie?

If it's a web movie, I would stay out of SD entirely. Just keep everything progressive. Computer displays are progressive anyway.

If it's to make a PAL (SD) DVD, then you have quite a few options (starting with the easiest one of simply exporting directly to Compressor from your HDV720p25 sequence - this one gives terrific results). Downconverting to SD in the timeline is certainly an option, but I'll refer you to an excellent post by Nate Weaver where he ranks the effectiveness of of the different ways you can downconvert to SD. And this was posted when he was working extensively with HDV 720p footage:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....26&postcount=1

David Scattergood · December 7th, 2007, 09:19 AM

Some of those guys were/are HD100 users, I presumed they were talking about progressive!!
Apparently 10 bit uncompressed is surplus to requirements for HDV at least (8 bit may be pushing it?).
The reason I went for the HDV to uncompressed SD timeline option is that this particular (and more than likely others in the future) are choc full of transitions/effects - I couldn't pretend to fully understand or detail why this method works better but I believed it to be that rendering the effects in the uncompressed 'arena' rather than via compressor would keep the results a lot cleaner...?

So - yes - standard DVD to be viewed either on TV's or Macs/PC
and
best delivery for the web (I'm not at this stage yet but will refer to the web delivery posts on here as and when).

Cheers.

David Knaggs · December 7th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

The reason I went for the HDV to uncompressed SD timeline option is that this particular (and more than likely others in the future) are choc full of transitions/effects - I couldn't pretend to fully understand or detail why this method works better but I believed it to be that rendering the effects in the uncompressed 'arena' rather than via compressor would keep the results a lot cleaner...?

Thanks for clarifying about the large number of transitions/effects.

In that case, if I were you, I'd try this:

With your existing HDV 720p25 sequence, go to Sequence>Settings and on the Quicktime Video Settings Compressor, scroll to Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 (or, if you have FCP 6, select Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) to use less disk space) and select it, making sure that the quality slider is at 100%.
Render the sequence and then export as a Quicktime movie. Use Current Settings and check the Make Movie Self-Contained box. This will export a full Quicktime movie. If you don't have the drive space, you can uncheck the Self-Contained box and export it as a reference movie. But I'd prefer to actually uncompress each frame by making the full movie (as you have that many transitions and effects) rather than just reference it. But it depends on how much space you have.
Then take the Uncompressed 720p25 movie into Compressor and make your DVD assets directly from that.

I haven't yet felt the need to export an Uncompressed movie from 720p25 footage (as I've been more than happy so far by exporting directly from the HDV timeline into Compressor), so this advice is purely theoretical. But I believe it should give you a pretty quick and impressive result for delivering your sample later today.

Good luck.

David Scattergood · December 7th, 2007, 10:41 AM

Many thanks for the advice (once again Mr Knaggs!).
I've always gone along with the FCP export to compressor route as, well I'm kind of used to it and happy with the results. But I'll give both a whirl...there are always many ways to climb mountains in this game and I guess you end up with the one you're most happy with.
And with your route I'm not actually cutting and pasting a HDV timeline into a new SD timeline, rather preparing the HDV sequence for SD export?

I think with this one, I was a little confused over the original easy setting of HDV 720p25 setting changing to 8 bit uncompressed - almost as if this setting is project selective rather than individual sequences (or so it appears to me)?

...anyway...DVDSP issue to kick up the behind now...!

Cheers.

December 7th, 2007, 06:45 AM	#1
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	HDV to 8 bit uncompressed...gone awry :( I'm really trying to figure this one out but I've got to the stage where I can't see the wood for the trees now...and panic stations are looking for the red alert function (deliver sample later today). I've a HDV 720p25 timeline I wish to down-convert to 8 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 before sending to compressor. So I copy and paste my HDV timeline into this new sequence (8 bit uncompressed...). For some inexplicable reason this new timeline has blown the footage up to 4:3 (anamorphic will merely stretch this) - it looks frankly awful. What's odd is that I did the same thing last week with a different edit and that worked fine. What's also baffling is that the original HDV 720p25 footage states 'uncompressed 8 bit pal' in the audio/video settings tab and not HDV 720p25...has this changed somehow also - are all the sequences including the original reverted to 8 bit when a new sequence with different settings are altered? I can use the uncompressed sequence (which worked ok last week) for the time being though I'm hoping this sends SD to compressor and not HDV. Might be a very basic FCP wrongdoing I'm carrying out here but any clues here folks would help! Cheers.

December 7th, 2007, 06:59 AM	#2
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	OK...for some reason the item properties on this new out of sorts sequence state the following: Vid rate: 25fps Frame size: 720x 480 (!!) Compressor: DV/DVCPRO - NTSC Pixel Aspect: NTSC - CCIR 601 No idea why this is flipping to that format....just can't see where I put the foot down incorrectly?? Also...should the frame size of the 8 bit uncompressed state: 1280 x 720p by the way? Thanks.

December 7th, 2007, 07:18 AM	#3
David Knaggs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 826	Hi David. I have to dash out for a bit, but very quickly: 1) If you set up an Uncompressed 8-bit (or 10-bit) PAL sequence, then your frame size will become PAL (which is around 720 X 576 - or something in that vicinity). Did you set the sequence to Uncompressed NTSC by mistake? 2) If you wish to have an Uncompressed sequence with the frame size at 1280 X 720, do an easy Setup for HDV 720p25, make a new sequence, go to Sequence>Settings and on the Quicktime Video Settings Compressor, scroll to Uncompressed 8-bit (or 10-bit) 4:2:2. I hope that helps a little.

December 7th, 2007, 07:59 AM	#4
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Cheers David. I have no idea why it reverted to NTSC...I'd tried this many times so I can discount slipped finger! Perhaps the easy set up for 8 bit uncompressed is not really what I wished to achieve - I was following the methods for down-converting a HDV timeline into SD (then onto compressor) from this thread (creating initial HDV 720p east set up then when timeline complete cut and pasting this timeline into an uncompressed 8 bit to be sent as SD to compressor??): http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=78905 So I've just exported a HDV timeline (with the sequence preset of uncompressed 8 bit) to compressor (which has the 1280x720 frame size)...I presume if this wasn't in fact down-converted then compressor has carried this out. Cheers David.

December 7th, 2007, 08:57 AM	#5
David Knaggs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 826	Hi David. I just had a quick look at that thread. They are definitely talking about the best way to get results with INTERLACED source footage (HDV2). You are shooting PROGRESSIVE source footage (HDV1). I know that compressing and re-scaling interlaced footage can at times be quite tricky, but those steps don't always have to be done with progressive footage. It just depends on the end result you are after. If you are intending to send it on to Compressor, are you intending to make DVD assets and/or a web movie? If it's a web movie, I would stay out of SD entirely. Just keep everything progressive. Computer displays are progressive anyway. If it's to make a PAL (SD) DVD, then you have quite a few options (starting with the easiest one of simply exporting directly to Compressor from your HDV720p25 sequence - this one gives terrific results). Downconverting to SD in the timeline is certainly an option, but I'll refer you to an excellent post by Nate Weaver where he ranks the effectiveness of of the different ways you can downconvert to SD. And this was posted when he was working extensively with HDV 720p footage: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....26&postcount=1

December 7th, 2007, 09:19 AM	#6
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Some of those guys were/are HD100 users, I presumed they were talking about progressive!! Apparently 10 bit uncompressed is surplus to requirements for HDV at least (8 bit may be pushing it?). The reason I went for the HDV to uncompressed SD timeline option is that this particular (and more than likely others in the future) are choc full of transitions/effects - I couldn't pretend to fully understand or detail why this method works better but I believed it to be that rendering the effects in the uncompressed 'arena' rather than via compressor would keep the results a lot cleaner...? So - yes - standard DVD to be viewed either on TV's or Macs/PC and best delivery for the web (I'm not at this stage yet but will refer to the web delivery posts on here as and when). Cheers.

December 7th, 2007, 10:41 AM	#8
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Many thanks for the advice (once again Mr Knaggs!). I've always gone along with the FCP export to compressor route as, well I'm kind of used to it and happy with the results. But I'll give both a whirl...there are always many ways to climb mountains in this game and I guess you end up with the one you're most happy with. And with your route I'm not actually cutting and pasting a HDV timeline into a new SD timeline, rather preparing the HDV sequence for SD export? I think with this one, I was a little confused over the original easy setting of HDV 720p25 setting changing to 8 bit uncompressed - almost as if this setting is project selective rather than individual sequences (or so it appears to me)? ...anyway...DVDSP issue to kick up the behind now...! Cheers.