Archiving HD edits

Stefan Grela · October 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM

Hello,

I now have a heap of wedding videos that have been edited in high definition, ready for when HD players are a realistic option.

At the moment, all final edits are archived as ProRes (non-HQ). This is not a very efficient means of storage. The 2 other options as I see it are:

HDV
H.264

Can anyone suggest their preference?

If going for HDV, the setup options are pretty easy. But if going for H.264, they are a multitude of compression settings to consider.

Can anyone suggest their preferred settings for H.264 when exporting from compressor?

Thanks in advance!

Stefan.

Andrew Kimery · October 3rd, 2007, 05:24 PM

Why not just roll the finished project off to tape? Keep your master tapes on a shelf along w/a DVD of the project file, gfx, music, etc.,.

-A

Stefan Grela · October 3rd, 2007, 05:48 PM

Yes, I've about that, but I would really like to back each wedding onto a few DVD's + a cheap HDD, and perhaps save the wear of my camera.

Duncan Craig · October 4th, 2007, 07:58 AM

Stick your self-contained native timeline movies onto IDE drives (or SATA) then stick them on the shelf.

I use a weibetech IDE to firewire 400 adaptor, and CD finder OSX to catogorise the contents of all the discs (Currently I have 24 IDE drives, various sizes and makes - 120GB to 250GB)

Andrew Kimery · October 5th, 2007, 03:12 AM

Stefan, what format do you shoot in? Archiving in ProRes is probably not very space efficient if you are shooting on HDV or DVCPro HD. On the flip side, you wouldn't to compress your masters down to H.264 because that will reduce their quality and make it problematic if you every need to go back and re-vist those projects.

-A

Stefan Grela · October 5th, 2007, 10:33 AM

@Andrew:
I shoot HDV. But I edit the video in sections. Each section is output in ProRes. Then finally each section is stiched together, and again output in ProRes.
I like this method because ProRes keeps image quaity to a high standard. HDV inroduces a reduction in quality during work, so I avoid it as far as possible. But your absolutely right, a ProRes file is far too large for archiving purposes.

H.264's no good? Not even good at a higher bit rate? Say for instance - at a bit rate equal to that of HDV. As it's a more effient codec compared to HDV, the same bit rate should provide better quality?

I've just output one wedding in HDV and I do notice the blocking effect during fast movements. I'm hoping H.264 would reduce this. Just wondering what settings are best for H.264?

On the other hand, if H.264 introduces complications, then maybe it's not a good option?

Jim Fields · October 7th, 2007, 11:34 AM

Hard Drives.

I have tons of cheap 200-250gb drives. All I do is delete the captured materials, delete the render files, and put the entire projects folder onto a spare drive, the project file, folder structure, any images, anything from Color, Live Type, DVD Studio Pro, etc onto the drive. When I need to go re-visit a project for a client all I do is move, or open that folder, open the FCP file, and when the unconnected error pops up, I slap a tape into the deck, and right click on the missing file in the bin, and hit batch capture. It will re-import the video file at the settings I had set it to originally.

If you dont delete the render files, then you will not need to re-render at all.

However, this only works for me as each project is contained in it's own folder, everything needed is right there, not scattered across my computer.

I keep projects for no less than 6 months, when I burn a DVD I have a folder inside the projects folder for the Video TS and Audio folders from DVD SP, so even if I wanted to burn a new DVD 4 months later, I dont need to either open DVDSP, or have to re-export the Mpegs.

Dave Beaty · October 7th, 2007, 07:33 PM

I suggest the the Combo Dock from Wiebetech (sp). You attach a bare SATA drive to it connect via Firewire 800. I use Retrospect to perform backups.

I've been editing HDV from our JVC gear for about 2 years now. I use AIC sometimes when rendering from AE or motion, but HDV editing is pretty much 1:1 from camera to edit. No loss of quality. I also use zMatte green screen and Color Finesse all the time without noticable loss of quality. You can also set the render settings of HDV sequences to a higher 4:2:2 setting like ProRes if you want, when adding effects or correction. File size is much more managable and I just copy the entire project and capture folders to the archive HD and shelve.

HTH

October 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM	#1
Stefan Grela New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK - Wrexham Posts: 18	Archiving HD edits - best solution? Hello, I now have a heap of wedding videos that have been edited in high definition, ready for when HD players are a realistic option. At the moment, all final edits are archived as ProRes (non-HQ). This is not a very efficient means of storage. The 2 other options as I see it are: HDV H.264 Can anyone suggest their preference? If going for HDV, the setup options are pretty easy. But if going for H.264, they are a multitude of compression settings to consider. Can anyone suggest their preferred settings for H.264 when exporting from compressor? Thanks in advance! Stefan.

October 3rd, 2007, 05:24 PM	#2
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Why not just roll the finished project off to tape? Keep your master tapes on a shelf along w/a DVD of the project file, gfx, music, etc.,. -A

October 3rd, 2007, 05:48 PM	#3
Stefan Grela New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK - Wrexham Posts: 18	Yes, I've about that, but I would really like to back each wedding onto a few DVD's + a cheap HDD, and perhaps save the wear of my camera.

October 4th, 2007, 07:58 AM	#4
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	Stick your self-contained native timeline movies onto IDE drives (or SATA) then stick them on the shelf. I use a weibetech IDE to firewire 400 adaptor, and CD finder OSX to catogorise the contents of all the discs (Currently I have 24 IDE drives, various sizes and makes - 120GB to 250GB)

October 5th, 2007, 03:12 AM	#5
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Stefan, what format do you shoot in? Archiving in ProRes is probably not very space efficient if you are shooting on HDV or DVCPro HD. On the flip side, you wouldn't to compress your masters down to H.264 because that will reduce their quality and make it problematic if you every need to go back and re-vist those projects. -A

October 5th, 2007, 10:33 AM	#6
Stefan Grela New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK - Wrexham Posts: 18	@Andrew: I shoot HDV. But I edit the video in sections. Each section is output in ProRes. Then finally each section is stiched together, and again output in ProRes. I like this method because ProRes keeps image quaity to a high standard. HDV inroduces a reduction in quality during work, so I avoid it as far as possible. But your absolutely right, a ProRes file is far too large for archiving purposes. H.264's no good? Not even good at a higher bit rate? Say for instance - at a bit rate equal to that of HDV. As it's a more effient codec compared to HDV, the same bit rate should provide better quality? I've just output one wedding in HDV and I do notice the blocking effect during fast movements. I'm hoping H.264 would reduce this. Just wondering what settings are best for H.264? On the other hand, if H.264 introduces complications, then maybe it's not a good option?

October 7th, 2007, 11:34 AM	#7
Jim Fields Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Worth Texas Posts: 247	Hard Drives. I have tons of cheap 200-250gb drives. All I do is delete the captured materials, delete the render files, and put the entire projects folder onto a spare drive, the project file, folder structure, any images, anything from Color, Live Type, DVD Studio Pro, etc onto the drive. When I need to go re-visit a project for a client all I do is move, or open that folder, open the FCP file, and when the unconnected error pops up, I slap a tape into the deck, and right click on the missing file in the bin, and hit batch capture. It will re-import the video file at the settings I had set it to originally. If you dont delete the render files, then you will not need to re-render at all. However, this only works for me as each project is contained in it's own folder, everything needed is right there, not scattered across my computer. I keep projects for no less than 6 months, when I burn a DVD I have a folder inside the projects folder for the Video TS and Audio folders from DVD SP, so even if I wanted to burn a new DVD 4 months later, I dont need to either open DVDSP, or have to re-export the Mpegs.

October 7th, 2007, 07:33 PM	#8
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	I suggest the the Combo Dock from Wiebetech (sp). You attach a bare SATA drive to it connect via Firewire 800. I use Retrospect to perform backups. I've been editing HDV from our JVC gear for about 2 years now. I use AIC sometimes when rendering from AE or motion, but HDV editing is pretty much 1:1 from camera to edit. No loss of quality. I also use zMatte green screen and Color Finesse all the time without noticable loss of quality. You can also set the render settings of HDV sequences to a higher 4:2:2 setting like ProRes if you want, when adding effects or correction. File size is much more managable and I just copy the entire project and capture folders to the archive HD and shelve. HTH