2D to 3D in post? at DVinfo.net

Matt Edwards · October 4th, 2013, 01:59 AM

I take care of all digital aspects of a small museum. About 3-4 years ago they had a peppers ghost built and I effectively project managed it from planning to installation. I was not at this time responsible for the video work.

About 1 month ago the massive projector started to play up and a decision was made to replace it. To inject some excitement back into the attraction a conversation was had around putting in a 3D projector and looking to convert the video into 3D.

I've since been scratching my head trying to find a suitable way of doing this. I've looked for Final Cut Pro X plugins, spoken to various specialists and yet feel more confused than when i started. Is anyone aware of a simplistic and cost effective way of doing this?

Roger Gunkel · October 4th, 2013, 06:15 AM

As I understand it, the Peppers Ghost uses a sheet of glass and suitable lighting to reflect the image of an actor onto the stage, where they appear to interact with an on stage actor. Presumably you are reflecting a recorded image rather than a real actor. If so, you would presumably lose the real life 3d depth that a real actor would reflect.

There are a number of 2d-3d converters on the market which can convert on the fly, however there are always limitations to the effectiveness of them. To get a realistic conversion, each frame of the video will need to have a depth map made up for it, which is a manual process used in film conversions. It is highly labour intensive, but I have limited knowledge on the process involved, but won't be cheap!

However have you not considered a more practical approach of simply using an actor in suitable lighting conditions to film them in 3d, then use a 3d projector as you suggested to show it. That would be a very straight forward process to film and edit, using either a 3d video camera such as the JVC GS TD1 or even a pair of matching standard video cameras, synched and edited in a suitable editing programme. I don't use FCP, but Sony Vegas, Premiere and Magix MEP 13/14 can all do this easily. Your viewers of course will have to wear 3d glasses to view, which may or may no be acceptable to you. I would think that using a projected 3d image would give a more realistic effect than a Peppers Ghost reflected 2d image.

Roger

Matt Edwards · October 4th, 2013, 09:02 AM

Roger thanks for your input.

What basically happened is that I believe the setup was never correct in the first place. There is a projector which in essence is just projecting onto the back wall with then the angled plastic sheetings in front of this. It doesn't create any sort of Peppers Ghost effect.

I've done a really rough drawing to show you. Having been today with a smaller projector, I find if I project straight up it seems to work ok and create the PG effect. The issue is that the original projector is massive and I'm unsure if it will create the required throw..It's about 7000 lumens.

What do you think?

Roger Gunkel · October 4th, 2013, 10:40 AM

Slightly confused by your drawing as it seems to show the projector at an oblique angle to the image which would surely distort it? I can't see why a comparatively low output projector showing the image on a screen in a darkened area shouldn't be sufficient. If the screen is to one side of the 'stage' hidden from the viewer, with a vertical sheet turned at 45 degrees to the viewer, the reflection should be visible.

The wikipedia entry for Peppers ghost is quite useful. Pepper's ghost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the whole thing seems to work in the same way as a teleprompter as far as I can see. I don"t know how big your display is, but maybe a tv could be used instead of a projector if the display is a small representative one.

Roger

Giroud Francois · October 5th, 2013, 03:28 AM

converting to 3D video a system built on pepper ghost effect is a dead end.
The pepper effect is made to give illusion.
3D video requires special screens or projectors and glasses. there is no more illusion if you have to wear equipement to see something.
If what you want is to reproduce the pepper gost effect with a video projector, this is possible and does not require to convert 2d video to 3d.

October 4th, 2013, 01:59 AM	#1
Matt Edwards Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Derby, United Kingdom Posts: 29	2D to 3D in post? I take care of all digital aspects of a small museum. About 3-4 years ago they had a peppers ghost built and I effectively project managed it from planning to installation. I was not at this time responsible for the video work. About 1 month ago the massive projector started to play up and a decision was made to replace it. To inject some excitement back into the attraction a conversation was had around putting in a 3D projector and looking to convert the video into 3D. I've since been scratching my head trying to find a suitable way of doing this. I've looked for Final Cut Pro X plugins, spoken to various specialists and yet feel more confused than when i started. Is anyone aware of a simplistic and cost effective way of doing this?

October 4th, 2013, 06:15 AM	#2
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: 2D to 3D in post? As I understand it, the Peppers Ghost uses a sheet of glass and suitable lighting to reflect the image of an actor onto the stage, where they appear to interact with an on stage actor. Presumably you are reflecting a recorded image rather than a real actor. If so, you would presumably lose the real life 3d depth that a real actor would reflect. There are a number of 2d-3d converters on the market which can convert on the fly, however there are always limitations to the effectiveness of them. To get a realistic conversion, each frame of the video will need to have a depth map made up for it, which is a manual process used in film conversions. It is highly labour intensive, but I have limited knowledge on the process involved, but won't be cheap! However have you not considered a more practical approach of simply using an actor in suitable lighting conditions to film them in 3d, then use a 3d projector as you suggested to show it. That would be a very straight forward process to film and edit, using either a 3d video camera such as the JVC GS TD1 or even a pair of matching standard video cameras, synched and edited in a suitable editing programme. I don't use FCP, but Sony Vegas, Premiere and Magix MEP 13/14 can all do this easily. Your viewers of course will have to wear 3d glasses to view, which may or may no be acceptable to you. I would think that using a projected 3d image would give a more realistic effect than a Peppers Ghost reflected 2d image. Roger

October 4th, 2013, 09:02 AM	#3
Matt Edwards Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Derby, United Kingdom Posts: 29	Re: 2D to 3D in post? Roger thanks for your input. What basically happened is that I believe the setup was never correct in the first place. There is a projector which in essence is just projecting onto the back wall with then the angled plastic sheetings in front of this. It doesn't create any sort of Peppers Ghost effect. I've done a really rough drawing to show you. Having been today with a smaller projector, I find if I project straight up it seems to work ok and create the PG effect. The issue is that the original projector is massive and I'm unsure if it will create the required throw..It's about 7000 lumens. What do you think? Attached Thumbnails

October 4th, 2013, 10:40 AM	#4
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: 2D to 3D in post? Slightly confused by your drawing as it seems to show the projector at an oblique angle to the image which would surely distort it? I can't see why a comparatively low output projector showing the image on a screen in a darkened area shouldn't be sufficient. If the screen is to one side of the 'stage' hidden from the viewer, with a vertical sheet turned at 45 degrees to the viewer, the reflection should be visible. The wikipedia entry for Peppers ghost is quite useful. Pepper's ghost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the whole thing seems to work in the same way as a teleprompter as far as I can see. I don"t know how big your display is, but maybe a tv could be used instead of a projector if the display is a small representative one. Roger

October 5th, 2013, 03:28 AM	#5
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	Re: 2D to 3D in post? converting to 3D video a system built on pepper ghost effect is a dead end. The pepper effect is made to give illusion. 3D video requires special screens or projectors and glasses. there is no more illusion if you have to wear equipement to see something. If what you want is to reproduce the pepper gost effect with a video projector, this is possible and does not require to convert 2d video to 3d.