Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now...

[Wayne Garton]

Originally Posted by Wayne Garton

How do you do this Craig?

Oh, just found it in the menu of FCPX

[Craig Seeman]

As I was editing along I selected every clip in my edit to make a move in the timeline. While all clips were selected I managed to hit the delete key.

Although it doesn't forgive the fact that there's no versioning, I'd have to ask, why were you selecting all the clips to move anything? To me it's a fundamentally dangerous workflow and it would seem counter to the advantage of the FCPX way of doing things.

One method would be to insert a Gap clip and alter it's duration as needed.
The point of the magnetic timeline line is that everything stays in sync as it's moved around.

[Arnie Schlissel]

Having skimmed through the entire thread, I'm still wondering why you didn't back up your work? All you really needed to do was to keep a duplicate of the project file on a separate drive. Which you should do anyway. Regardless of what editing software (or non editing software) you're working with.

I've always felt that the responsibility for saving, backing up & versioning really rests with the user. Regardless of what type of software you're using.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

... I'd have to ask, why were you selecting all the clips to move anything? ... it would seem counter to the advantage of the FCPX way of doing things. One method ... insert a Gap clip and alter it's duration as needed. The point of the magnetic timeline line is that everything stays in sync as it's moved around.

I understand where Matt is coming from, in FCP 7 selecting all the clips is a sanctioned and specific tool (key command tttt & ttttt). It's all part of this slow process of coming to grips with how to "think" in FCP X. You made an excellent point about gap clips and keeping everything in sync, the minute I read your post, I was thinking, yeah that's a great way to move all the clips in FCP X.

[Bart Walczak]

Isn't saying "you should have backed up your data" just adding insult to the injury? After all, it was Apple who removed the possibility of saving from FCPX. It was FCPX that crashed, it was not a hardware issue (hard drive fail, whatever), it was the software error, which resulted with a serious loss of data, which the manufacturer actually claimed was no longer possible (remember that?).

Therefore turning this discussion into the backup issue is a red herring. Instead of just saving a file I now have to have a backup watch folder or switch to Finder to make sure that my data stays intact after the software crash?

Saving, incremental saving, auto-saving - these are all first-line defenses against such a problem. While auto-saving on the go in FCPX is a nifty feature, removing a possiblity of manual saving seems to create its own share of problems, and this is precisely one of the cases where "automatic control" does fail, even though it supposedly acted correct - saving the file before the crash occured.

Perhaps the lesson there is rather to retain a possibility of manual control when adding automatic features, than having a backup of your data.

[William Hohauser]

I too keep reverting to FCP7 techniques and find myself thwarted until I remember the X way or read up on the new method. The track tool was one of my most used tools in 7. The magnetic timeline is a great method of working but not without a few issues that either can be improved by updated programming in the software or in our heads.

[Bill Davis]

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Isn't saying "you should have backed up your data" just adding insult to the injury? After all, it was Apple who removed the possibility of saving from FCPX. It was FCPX that crashed, it was not a hardware issue (hard drive fail, whatever), it was the software error, which resulted with a serious loss of data, which the manufacturer actually claimed was no longer possible (remember that?).

Therefore turning this discussion into the backup issue is a red herring. Instead of just saving a file I now have to have a backup watch folder or switch to Finder to make sure that my data stays intact after the software crash?

Saving, incremental saving, auto-saving - these are all first-line defenses against such a problem. While auto-saving on the go in FCPX is a nifty feature, removing a possiblity of manual saving seems to create its own share of problems, and this is precisely one of the cases where "automatic control" does fail, even though it supposedly acted correct - saving the file before the crash occured.

Perhaps the lesson there is rather to retain a possibility of manual control when adding automatic features, than having a backup of your data.

Bart,

While I understand your thinking, I have to say that I learned LONG ago that when you have critical work on the line, no hardware, no software, and no workflow is totally safe. Over the 30 years I've been doing computer work, every single OS, drive, and software package has come to a failure point. And brand new software such has FCP-X is more prone to disaster than most.

In fact, looking back, FCP v1 was pretty flawless for it's day. Then they started expanding and updating it and there were some releases through version 3 and 4 on the way to 7 where things that worked very solid on Friday, then would crash constantly after the official Monday "update."

It's just how things work.

If your work matters, you learn to leave as little as possible to chance and to do your own safety backups no matter what any manufacturer says.

Simple as that.

[Craig Seeman]

Ironically was it the early versions of FCP4 or FCP5 that had a serious problem with the AutoSave feature. It would stop working and you'd go for hours not releasing it and the bug itself would cause a crash. You'd discover a day's work was gone because there was nothing new in the AutoSave Vault. It was at that point that I stopped trusting AutoSave. Of course you'd have your last manual save to go back to, if you were diligent and that's not an option in FCPX.

[Oliver Neubert]

on fcp7:

cmd s

takes no time and usually works well but even then, I keep a finder window open to check if the time on my saved fcp7 project gets updated. I had a problem once where cmd s would seem to work but actually not save anything. and no autosave. The only thing that worked and which I sometimes use when working with a large critical project is the save as feature.
Running a critical project without having complete control over the saves is indeed scary. Timemachine as a solution? maybe but - not sure - timemachine has screwed me over as well...

[Matt Portwood]

A couple of you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, after working in FCP 7 I developed habits, and habits are hard to break. This was just one instance where I found myself doing it the 'old' way. Its much the same with the save feature. Even though FCP X autosaves I would constantly find myself hitting cmd-s. After being so used to having software with manual saving in addition to auto save and a vault full of versions which I could revert to if needed I never felt the need to do a 'manual' back-up of a session.

Now, of course, I do see that there is an obvious benefit to it. In fact it is something I would always do when working with my music clients. After a day of recording we would backup the entire session folder to a different drive. However, call it what you want, going back to FCP 7 and also having worked in Premiere for a couple of days now I am perfectly happy manually saving, and constantly seeing that nice little notice pop up on the screen in Premiere letting me know when an auto save takes place. It is a constant comfort seeing that happen.

[Jim Giberti]

I still don't understand why people don't use Time Machine in this regard.

Assuming that "the straw that..." prompted Matt's move to Premiere, then the simple and critical use of TM in the background would have taken care of his issue in a moment.

It appears what this discussion should be about is the lack of professional care of people's work. Performing acrobatics without a net is just dumb. It takes absolutely no effort or time to setup TM it's instantaneous.

The ability to click on TM and call up the state of you HD at any given time for any given file going back hours days and months is simply great and exactly all that Matt needed.

Now I had a TM fail this year when I needed to restore the main drive that had also failed (A problem that Apple apologized for and amazingly overnighted my both a new TM and a new 2 TB redundant HD for that.

The point is, if you're doing any work that you take seriously, whether for clients or not, everything is your fault if you don't have redundant back up of any and all critical data (meaning a back up of your back up)

HDs will fail, everyone of them - and with no concern as to the bad timing for you. Not having an immediately available previous state of everything through TM is simply operator negligence and has nothing to do with the program that lost the data. Having that data redundantly stored costs a few bucks more and reduces the likelihood of aver losing anything critical to a very very small possibility.

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Matt Portwood

having worked in Premiere for a couple of days now I am perfectly happy manually saving, and constantly seeing that nice little notice pop up on the screen in Premiere letting me know when an auto save takes place. It is a constant comfort seeing that happen.

Not to beat up on ya Matt because I know you've learned from this (we all had to go through it) but you'd get that same feeling of security looking up and seeing your time machine arrow spinning regularly in your menu bar.

Unlike you, I've continued producing in FCP7 waiting for bug fixes and refinement in an update and that just arrived. After I finish up the dozen or so spots and short films on the schedule I'm going to start producing in the new 1.1 this Fall

Waiting for bug fixes and updates before using a new program for any serious work is like consistently backing up - you learn the hard way, but you learn forever.

Good luck with PrP. I've been on the fence myself and now I'm leaning back to X with the new communication and direction from Apple

[William Hohauser]

I am on the fence with Avid regarding a potential job (the $1000 deal is tempting) but a few experiments with the new X will make that decision for me.

[Jim Giberti]

I'd be interested to hear your experience William.
I have to stick with FCP 7 till I get through my schedule and I don't want to get into X until I know I can do it justice.
It sounds a lot more stable already and hopefully better when I can really work with it.

[Damian Heffernan]

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Isn't saying "you should have backed up your data" just adding insult to the injury? After all, it was Apple who removed the possibility of saving from FCPX. It was FCPX that crashed, it was not a hardware issue (hard drive fail, whatever), it was the software error, which resulted with a serious loss of data, which the manufacturer actually claimed was no longer possible (remember that?).

Therefore turning this discussion into the backup issue is a red herring. Instead of just saving a file I now have to have a backup watch folder or switch to Finder to make sure that my data stays intact after the software crash?

Saving, incremental saving, auto-saving - these are all first-line defenses against such a problem. While auto-saving on the go in FCPX is a nifty feature, removing a possiblity of manual saving seems to create its own share of problems, and this is precisely one of the cases where "automatic control" does fail, even though it supposedly acted correct - saving the file before the crash occured.

Perhaps the lesson there is rather to retain a possibility of manual control when adding automatic features, than having a backup of your data.

+1 and well said Bart. The software vendor makes a change that takes away functionality, removes redundancy and forces you to change your working habits of many years. After the inevitable lesson we all learn when we lose some work we put in place habits, dare I say systems of work that we use to avoid loss. Hard drives fail: yep. So we have raided, redundant drives which we save (auto save) our projects to. Then when the software crashes (when) we can always go back to the saved copy, auto or not and begin work. So now we have to invest in time machine drives, change our way of working. OK cool, you've expressed your opinion Apple and now we can express ours and go have a look at the competitors who believe in evolution of software and improving it by listening to the users instead of deciding the users don't know what's best and need to be told.

Sorry end of rant. I'm off to look at AVID which I haven't touched for 7 years.