My ambivalence about FCP-X

David Parks · July 11th, 2011, 05:35 PM

We actually found a use for FCP X. Go figure,,but it makes sense. We are about to complete a flash web-site outline edit for every EVA station of the Apollo 15 moon landing. Video clips based on research from UTEP. It took two years and it was a pain working from their notes, etc. just to get to this point

Fast forward to today, literally today, we are looking at starting a Apollo 16 EVA project. This time a lunar expert is coming in from Univ. of Washington and she knows...you guessed it iMovie. So, the plan is for her to organize all of the material in advance. Not really an offine,,but organize with keywords and collections,,and then move to FCP X. And I will edit the narration, stills, and EVA footage into about 25 sequences. This will be a good test for FCPX media management. But hoefully she will do a bang up job in organizing everything. So, two weeks ago I never thought I would be editing a pro project with FCPX, and now I am going to. Not that I like it more than Avid.

While I am still getting used to FCP X and keep finding myself playing with it at home,,and still don't like a lot of things about the program,,, trimming sux,,,only one event window open at a time,,etc. etc. But it really makes too much sense for this particular project. So, go figure.

While I wouldn't quite call this a new workflow of the future,,,it does allow for collaboration with people that don't edit. So, I now have Avid MC 5.5, FCP 6, FCPX ,PPro CS3, Edius NEO, and Vegas 8 for work and Avid MC 5, FCPX, on MAC,, and an old Avid Xpress, Vegas 7 and CS4 on PC. There is a tool somewhere for the job there. :)

Bill Pryor · July 12th, 2011, 07:00 PM

Richard, I should have been more specific. It seemed to many of us at that time that Avid was going to abandon Mac. They brought out Symphony for PC but not Mac, and they got way behind in updates and in making MC compatible with Apple's OS updates. There was a huge backlash and a few thousand people jumped ship. It wasn't Apple that made FCP what it was, it was Avid giving them a big chunk of the market. So Avid didn't totally abandon Mac, but they put it on the back burner far enough so many people felt abandoned, or felt impending abandonment coming on.

Now go forward a little, and Avid recovered nicely from the bad press. The current MC is way better than FCP, from all I've read--haven't used it personally. If I were starting from scratch, I'd most likely go with Avid because it's probably the most intuitive of the systems and I know it well. But because of way too many old FCP projects I have to keep active, PP is easier for me, even though I have to learn a new system. I don't think whoever masterminded this new development at Apple is as smart about the professional editing market as Avid is (or maybe they just don't care about that market), so I really doubt they'll change things and resurrect FCP 7 and improve it.

I haven't yet had time to get fully into PP, but what I've seen so far makes it worth the money. Although I never like spending money when I don't want to, I'm now glad Apple pushed me in this direction. Somethings in PP are already just so much nicer than in FCP.

David Parks · July 13th, 2011, 07:42 AM

A little history from the late 90's NLE world. Apple in the 90's was about to become extinct. The MAC market share was not even a blip less than 5%, the MAC Clones were selling almost as much as Apple's and PC workstations were becoming the platform of choice for 3D animation/FX. Avid received funding in the form of stock from Intel and Microsoft and decided it was best not to be dependent on just the MAC platform and moved aggressively to the PC platform. So, they did become more beholden to PC's as a result of their agreement.They didn't abandon the MAC intitally, but there was this rumored fist fight between and Apple and an Avid guy in the Avid booth I believe in 1997 NAB or so and the relationship just tanked from there. The two companies really didn't trust each other at all.

At that time, I had Compaq Computer as a client, and no one, and I mean no one in any marketing research group believed Apple would ever recover and rebuild the way they did when Steve Jobs took back over.

So Avid did yield the NLE MAC market to Apple FCP because they saw the same declining numbers as everyone else and thhe only way to survive was to in their minds adapt. And much much to their credit Apple adapted and you know the rest of the story.

Bill Pryor · July 13th, 2011, 09:23 AM

I've just read that Avid's Media Composer free trial works fine on OS 10.6.8, so they are fully caught up now.

David St. Juskow · July 14th, 2011, 11:52 AM

Avid was planning to abandon Apple for sure, around 1999, if I recall. The plan wasn't just talk, it was written policy that by Q3 of that year, they would be purely PC based. It caused an uproar even within the company, and when word leaked out (however such things do) their LA / Hollywood customers made them reverse the bonehead move. The difference is, people heard about the plan long before it went into action. With FCP-X, all I heard was blind praise and hype by everyone because they believed a smoke-and-mirrors demo done by Apple. The backlash only came after the product was already out. I don't think Apple is going to change their trajectory- they'll add some updates and fixes and call it a day while they focus on their iCrap.

Avid's not a great company, but they need us to function, unlike Apple, and for that reason alone, they'll do the bare minimum to keep customers happy, which is more than what Apple needs to do. They're no longer the top dogs they used to be, thanks to Apple, ironically. My dream would be an open-source editing program that everyone could add to, making it better and better all the time... if only I knew anything about programming!

David Parks · July 14th, 2011, 02:59 PM

Lightworks

David, Here you go. I don't know how long they will be open source, but for now it is pretty amazing. Free download of public beta. The only catch is that Lightworks only run on PC's. OS/X is coming they say. i havn't tried yet, but plan to soon.

Nigel Barker · July 14th, 2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Parks

Lightworks

David, Here you go. I don't know how long they will be open source, but for now it is pretty amazing. Free download of public beta. The only catch is that Lightworks only run on PC's. OS/X is coming they say. i haven't tried yet, but plan to soon.

AFAIK the idea is for it to always be free & open source. They are moving to a different business model of getting Lightworks itself used by as many people as possible while proprietary plugins will be offered from an online shop.

BTW They brag about a long list of feature films that have been edited on Lightworks Production Credits

David St. Juskow · July 14th, 2011, 04:03 PM

Thanks- I had forgotten about Lightworks... mostly because it's on a PC and, for better or for worse, I'm on a mac almost everywhere I go. Good to hear that OSX is planned- I will definitely keep an ear out- the more of us who push for this, the better off everyone will be in the long run.

July 11th, 2011, 05:35 PM	#16
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X We actually found a use for FCP X. Go figure,,but it makes sense. We are about to complete a flash web-site outline edit for every EVA station of the Apollo 15 moon landing. Video clips based on research from UTEP. It took two years and it was a pain working from their notes, etc. just to get to this point Fast forward to today, literally today, we are looking at starting a Apollo 16 EVA project. This time a lunar expert is coming in from Univ. of Washington and she knows...you guessed it iMovie. So, the plan is for her to organize all of the material in advance. Not really an offine,,but organize with keywords and collections,,and then move to FCP X. And I will edit the narration, stills, and EVA footage into about 25 sequences. This will be a good test for FCPX media management. But hoefully she will do a bang up job in organizing everything. So, two weeks ago I never thought I would be editing a pro project with FCPX, and now I am going to. Not that I like it more than Avid. While I am still getting used to FCP X and keep finding myself playing with it at home,,and still don't like a lot of things about the program,,, trimming sux,,,only one event window open at a time,,etc. etc. But it really makes too much sense for this particular project. So, go figure. While I wouldn't quite call this a new workflow of the future,,,it does allow for collaboration with people that don't edit. So, I now have Avid MC 5.5, FCP 6, FCPX ,PPro CS3, Edius NEO, and Vegas 8 for work and Avid MC 5, FCPX, on MAC,, and an old Avid Xpress, Vegas 7 and CS4 on PC. There is a tool somewhere for the job there. :) __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

July 12th, 2011, 07:00 PM	#17
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X Richard, I should have been more specific. It seemed to many of us at that time that Avid was going to abandon Mac. They brought out Symphony for PC but not Mac, and they got way behind in updates and in making MC compatible with Apple's OS updates. There was a huge backlash and a few thousand people jumped ship. It wasn't Apple that made FCP what it was, it was Avid giving them a big chunk of the market. So Avid didn't totally abandon Mac, but they put it on the back burner far enough so many people felt abandoned, or felt impending abandonment coming on. Now go forward a little, and Avid recovered nicely from the bad press. The current MC is way better than FCP, from all I've read--haven't used it personally. If I were starting from scratch, I'd most likely go with Avid because it's probably the most intuitive of the systems and I know it well. But because of way too many old FCP projects I have to keep active, PP is easier for me, even though I have to learn a new system. I don't think whoever masterminded this new development at Apple is as smart about the professional editing market as Avid is (or maybe they just don't care about that market), so I really doubt they'll change things and resurrect FCP 7 and improve it. I haven't yet had time to get fully into PP, but what I've seen so far makes it worth the money. Although I never like spending money when I don't want to, I'm now glad Apple pushed me in this direction. Somethings in PP are already just so much nicer than in FCP.

July 13th, 2011, 07:42 AM	#18
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X A little history from the late 90's NLE world. Apple in the 90's was about to become extinct. The MAC market share was not even a blip less than 5%, the MAC Clones were selling almost as much as Apple's and PC workstations were becoming the platform of choice for 3D animation/FX. Avid received funding in the form of stock from Intel and Microsoft and decided it was best not to be dependent on just the MAC platform and moved aggressively to the PC platform. So, they did become more beholden to PC's as a result of their agreement.They didn't abandon the MAC intitally, but there was this rumored fist fight between and Apple and an Avid guy in the Avid booth I believe in 1997 NAB or so and the relationship just tanked from there. The two companies really didn't trust each other at all. At that time, I had Compaq Computer as a client, and no one, and I mean no one in any marketing research group believed Apple would ever recover and rebuild the way they did when Steve Jobs took back over. So Avid did yield the NLE MAC market to Apple FCP because they saw the same declining numbers as everyone else and thhe only way to survive was to in their minds adapt. And much much to their credit Apple adapted and you know the rest of the story. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

July 13th, 2011, 09:23 AM	#19
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X I've just read that Avid's Media Composer free trial works fine on OS 10.6.8, so they are fully caught up now.

July 14th, 2011, 11:52 AM	#20
David St. Juskow Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: new york city Posts: 113	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X Avid was planning to abandon Apple for sure, around 1999, if I recall. The plan wasn't just talk, it was written policy that by Q3 of that year, they would be purely PC based. It caused an uproar even within the company, and when word leaked out (however such things do) their LA / Hollywood customers made them reverse the bonehead move. The difference is, people heard about the plan long before it went into action. With FCP-X, all I heard was blind praise and hype by everyone because they believed a smoke-and-mirrors demo done by Apple. The backlash only came after the product was already out. I don't think Apple is going to change their trajectory- they'll add some updates and fixes and call it a day while they focus on their iCrap. Avid's not a great company, but they need us to function, unlike Apple, and for that reason alone, they'll do the bare minimum to keep customers happy, which is more than what Apple needs to do. They're no longer the top dogs they used to be, thanks to Apple, ironically. My dream would be an open-source editing program that everyone could add to, making it better and better all the time... if only I knew anything about programming!

July 14th, 2011, 02:59 PM	#21
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X Lightworks David, Here you go. I don't know how long they will be open source, but for now it is pretty amazing. Free download of public beta. The only catch is that Lightworks only run on PC's. OS/X is coming they say. i havn't tried yet, but plan to soon. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

July 14th, 2011, 04:03 PM	#23
David St. Juskow Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: new york city Posts: 113	Re: My ambivalence about FCP-X Thanks- I had forgotten about Lightworks... mostly because it's on a PC and, for better or for worse, I'm on a mac almost everywhere I go. Good to hear that OSX is planned- I will definitely keep an ear out- the more of us who push for this, the better off everyone will be in the long run.