Flash Card dropouts just like tape?

[David Morgan]

Do we still experience periodic drop outs using compact flash? I'm using a Focus FSH-200 compact flash recorder via firewire out of my Canon XH-A1. Doing long theatre shows. I get dropouts randomly. Maybe only one in an hour but it is devastating. Using HDV, the dropout wipes out a huge chunk of video. I don't have a second camera. At this juncture, I under the impresson that there are periodic miss captures of data and the HDV format, just as with tape, crashes hard.

Do tapeless cards suffer dropouts?

Canon XH-A1
Focus Enhancements FSH-200
Sandisk Extreme 3, 30MB/sec data speed, 32 gig card (manufacturer recommended card).
firewire connection.

[Perrone Ford]

I've never had a dropout with any tapeless camera. EVER. And I went tapleless in 2004.

[David Morgan]

just to be clear. Tapeless Camera or DTE device connected to a tape camera? There must be a reason that the recording cards like P2 cost so much more than a $175.00 compact flash card. I wonder if this is a factor as well. Also what recording format? HDV or other?


Interesting thing is, forgot to mention that I was running a tape in the camera as a backup. The dropout is NOT on the tape
thx for the reply

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by David Morgan

just to be clear. Tapeless Camera or DTE device connected to a tape camera? There must be a reason that the recording cards like P2 cost so much more than a $175.00 compact flash card. I wonder if this is a factor as well. Also what recording format? HDV or other?


Interesting thing is, forgot to mention that I was running a tape in the camera as a backup. The dropout is NOT on the tape
thx for the reply

In 2004 I bought a firestore. I ran that connected to a DVX100 (original model) for a number of years. In 2008 I bought an EX1. I ran the firestore connected to that cam in HDV mode. I also ran SxS, and later SDHC in the EX1. I shot a film on a 5D. I've shot on a HVX200 as well with P2 and with a Firestore. None of those cameras, in all that time, has ever had a single dropout. Ever.

P2 cards cost a lot off money because Panasonic has a market monopoly. Once that monopoly was over, the costs came down quickly. P2 and SxS command a premium over CF/SDHC because they are faster and "branded" so people believe they are better and more safe for their data. I dropped SxS as soon as SDHC was available and have never looked back.

I've been on sticks, dolly, steadicam, fig rig, and straight handheld with the DVX, the EX1, and the 5D. Never an issue.

I suggest you have a good look at your firewire cable.That's the most likely culprit.

[David Morgan]

thx. All good info.

Have you had the occasion to run a recording over an hour straight?

btw, I had this happen on two separate occasions. Used different FW cable. I've used the unit twice and have had dropouts both times. Not exactly confidence building. Not cheap to replace the flash card either.

[Bill Koehler]

Since you've swapped cables, I would start suspecting the connectors, either in the Camera or the Recorder.

[David Morgan]

yeah, but they're tight.
doesn't sound like anyone is suspecting the hardware. I don't expect Focus to admit they might have an issue. Swapping cards is an expensive experiment. I also suspect that most people are using these systems to record on a much shorter basis. Maybe never encountering this issue. However, I'm forced to use a double system (record to tape and card) to make sure I'm safe. Not the reason I bought the FS-200.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by David Morgan

thx. All good info.

Have you had the occasion to run a recording over an hour straight?

btw, I had this happen on two separate occasions. Used different FW cable. I've used the unit twice and have had dropouts both times. Not exactly confidence building. Not cheap to replace the flash card either.

Long form is my most normal use. 2-8hr conferences. That's why I bought the firestore in the first place. I was recording 6hr public conferences and having to stop proceedings so I could "change tapes". I do less of those now, but still do quite a number of 2hr straight recordings.

[Wesley Cardone]

Consider that the card may have problems. Try another lower capacity card that is rated for at least the same speed. I say "lower capacity" because your cost is small to just test out and idea.

Also, I assume you are formatting the card before each shoot rather than merely deleting content. This is important.

Dropouts to electronic media are without exception UNACCEPTABLE. It should not be happening.

[David Morgan]

thx for the reply.
I am pretty baffled by this myself. It happened 3 times during a 2 hour show. If you've seen what a drop out looks like on tape when recording in HDV or other Mpeg format, it's pretty bad. It's one thing to lose a frame in DV but 15 or so (half a second) in Mpeg is horrible if your doing a single camera job.

I've since upgraded the firmware on the FSH-200 but have yet to test it again. It's also a great idea about the low capacity card. The 32 gig card I'm using costs 200.00. It is the Sandisk extreme 3 (30 Mbits/sec) as recommended by Focus.

The one thing I have noticed is that the problem seems to show itself more often when I just start recording, like 10 seconds into a roll. Doesn't always happen but it's happened twice this way already.

Here's one of the worst examples of what's happening. Right at the very end of this clip, watch the guy in front moving toward stage right. He will jump. If you step the movie frame by frame, you can see the drop out happen