Tapeless HDV capture solution at DVinfo.net

Natan Pakman · September 24th, 2009, 09:24 AM

I am looking for a hard disk recorder that will record at least one continuous hour of HDV (or HD on a different codec) footage.

I have tried the Firestore, but at every cut that it automatically creates while continously recording (due to file size issues of course) there is a jump cut (about 1-2 frames). For my purposes, this is unacceptable.

I don't know much about other hard disk recorders, but what recorder could solve this problem?

Pete Cofrancesco · September 25th, 2009, 08:19 PM

I believe formatting UDF instead of FAT32 gets around the file size limitation.

Natan Pakman · September 26th, 2009, 09:41 AM

What products format UDF instead of FAT32?

In any case, the fact that multiple files are created during recording because of a maximum limit the file size is not a problem. In SD I have had no problem with the Firestore FS-4HD. However, when I have tried recording in M2T HDV format, at the cuts there is a jump. I am wondering if the FS-5, or any other similar product, exists that doesn't have this problem.

Pete Cofrancesco · September 26th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Use UDF file format for Firestore

Natan Pakman · September 28th, 2009, 08:04 AM

Does the FS-4 have this option? If it does, where would I change this setting?

Doesn't creating one huge file present a higher risk for the entire footage getting corrupted with one error?

Pete Cofrancesco · September 30th, 2009, 11:01 PM

I use a FS-5 and never used the 4. For a definitive answer download the manual and contact Focus's customer support. You asked how to make continuous file to avoid drop outs and I gave you an option. UDF supports up to 1.5 hrs in one file. You should always shoot to tape as a back up this would solve any risk issue. FS-5 in my experience doesn't drop frames in between files but I'm a new user and haven't scrutinized it.

Aaron Newsome · October 1st, 2009, 03:37 PM

Nathan, I have a Firestore and I do events where I need to record 4+ hours with sound being recorded on a separate recorder (actually a multi-track recording). Even at 4+ hours, I've never lost a frame as you say. Head slate and tail slate show the file in sync right down to the frame.

Are you sure this is an issue you've seen on all Firestores? Mine doesn't seem to have this problem.

Natan Pakman · October 2nd, 2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

Nathan, I have a Firestore and I do events where I need to record 4+ hours with sound being recorded on a separate recorder (actually a multi-track recording). Even at 4+ hours, I've never lost a frame as you say. Head slate and tail slate show the file in sync right down to the frame.

Are you sure this is an issue you've seen on all Firestores? Mine doesn't seem to have this problem.

Aaron, I should have mentioned this in my original post - I have only used the FS-4HD. That unit records using the FAT32 disk format, and from the replies I've gotten here, it's clear that the FS-5, which records in UDF, would resolve my issues (I need to record 60 minutes of a continuous shot).

I am still curious, or concerned, about one possible problem. My original issue was that when I recorded in M2T (HDV) format and put the several files together in my NLE, right at the seams there was a small, but unacceptable, jump cut. While that issue is sidestepped using the FS-5 (b/c of my hour-long shot), if I were to record in HDV (with the FS-5), say, a 2 hour-long shot, and 2 files were created, would I have the same jump cut issues at the seams when placing the files in my NLE?

Aaron Newsome · October 2nd, 2009, 01:10 PM

I have the DR-HD100. (paired with a JVC HD-100 Camera). My drive is Fat32 and there is absolutely no lost frame or jump cut between the small files of a long recording. This would be completely unacceptable.

Matt Vanecek · October 2nd, 2009, 01:33 PM

I have an FS-4 and a MRC1K. From the FS-4, on Windows, you can just "copy /b file1+file2 target.m2t", in a DOS prompt, after mounting the device on your Windows computer. There are no jumps or dropped frames. This works with both HDV and with SD video. I've had my FS-4 for 4 or 5 years, never a problem doing it this way.

The MRC1K has the Sony utility to stitch the files from CF back together. A 32GB card gets you something like 2.5 hours of HDV.

Thanks,
Matt

Natan Pakman · October 5th, 2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

I have the DR-HD100. (paired with a JVC HD-100 Camera). My drive is Fat32 and there is absolutely no lost frame or jump cut between the small files of a long recording. This would be completely unacceptable.

Aaron, are you doing this with sd or HDV video? My issue was only with HDV M2T video, to use in Windows.

I do not know of the same occurs when recording in the HD quicktime format, and using that in FCP, as I don't use it.

Aaron Newsome · October 6th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natan Pakman

Aaron, are you doing this with sd or HDV video? My issue was only with HDV M2T video, to use in Windows.

I do not know of the same occurs when recording in the HD quicktime format, and using that in FCP, as I don't use it.

I use HDV 720p, 23.97 or 29.97 to Quicktime. Never missed a frame. I haven't used the M2T format.

Natan Pakman · October 6th, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

I use HDV 720p, 23.97 or 29.97 to Quicktime. Never missed a frame. I haven't used the M2T format.

So perhaps on the DR-HD100, when recording in M2T (which I know that it can), this doesn't happen, but with the FS-4 it certainly does.

Basically, what it comes down to, is I could either try another model that uses FAT32, or get the FS-5 which uses UDF.

Pete Cofrancesco · October 8th, 2009, 09:54 AM

Just to be clear any device using FAT32 has a file size limitation. The F5 can be formatted as FAT or UDF. Either format shouldn't drop frames in between files.

September 24th, 2009, 09:24 AM	#1
Natan Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 196	Tapeless HDV capture solution I am looking for a hard disk recorder that will record at least one continuous hour of HDV (or HD on a different codec) footage. I have tried the Firestore, but at every cut that it automatically creates while continously recording (due to file size issues of course) there is a jump cut (about 1-2 frames). For my purposes, this is unacceptable. I don't know much about other hard disk recorders, but what recorder could solve this problem?

September 25th, 2009, 08:19 PM	#2
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	I believe formatting UDF instead of FAT32 gets around the file size limitation.

September 26th, 2009, 09:41 AM	#3
Natan Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 196	What products format UDF instead of FAT32? In any case, the fact that multiple files are created during recording because of a maximum limit the file size is not a problem. In SD I have had no problem with the Firestore FS-4HD. However, when I have tried recording in M2T HDV format, at the cuts there is a jump. I am wondering if the FS-5, or any other similar product, exists that doesn't have this problem.

September 26th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#4
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Use UDF file format for Firestore

September 28th, 2009, 08:04 AM	#5
Natan Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 196	Does the FS-4 have this option? If it does, where would I change this setting? Doesn't creating one huge file present a higher risk for the entire footage getting corrupted with one error?

September 30th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#6
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	I use a FS-5 and never used the 4. For a definitive answer download the manual and contact Focus's customer support. You asked how to make continuous file to avoid drop outs and I gave you an option. UDF supports up to 1.5 hrs in one file. You should always shoot to tape as a back up this would solve any risk issue. FS-5 in my experience doesn't drop frames in between files but I'm a new user and haven't scrutinized it.

October 1st, 2009, 03:37 PM	#7
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Nathan, I have a Firestore and I do events where I need to record 4+ hours with sound being recorded on a separate recorder (actually a multi-track recording). Even at 4+ hours, I've never lost a frame as you say. Head slate and tail slate show the file in sync right down to the frame. Are you sure this is an issue you've seen on all Firestores? Mine doesn't seem to have this problem.

October 2nd, 2009, 01:10 PM	#9
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	I have the DR-HD100. (paired with a JVC HD-100 Camera). My drive is Fat32 and there is absolutely no lost frame or jump cut between the small files of a long recording. This would be completely unacceptable.

October 2nd, 2009, 01:33 PM	#10
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	I have an FS-4 and a MRC1K. From the FS-4, on Windows, you can just "copy /b file1+file2 target.m2t", in a DOS prompt, after mounting the device on your Windows computer. There are no jumps or dropped frames. This works with both HDV and with SD video. I've had my FS-4 for 4 or 5 years, never a problem doing it this way. The MRC1K has the Sony utility to stitch the files from CF back together. A 32GB card gets you something like 2.5 hours of HDV. Thanks, Matt

October 8th, 2009, 09:54 AM	#14
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Just to be clear any device using FAT32 has a file size limitation. The F5 can be formatted as FAT or UDF. Either format shouldn't drop frames in between files.