Torn on tapeless option for XH-A1

Colin McDonald · December 22nd, 2008, 08:32 AM

Sorry Stuart, I thought I had posted another reply but maybe I only saw the preview.

I know that some folks have recorded from the component out on their XH-A1 but I couldn't tell you what hardware was used or how good the quality is.

Michael Palermo · January 1st, 2009, 07:08 AM

I've used the component out of my XH-A1 and converted it to HD-SDI via an AJA converter then recorded on a Convergent Design Flash XDR. The picture quality (compression) is superior to the HDV you can get off the tape. I believe the signal is 4:2:2 at the component output as well.

Stuart Graham · January 3rd, 2009, 07:24 PM

Thanks for the info Michael and Colin. It would be brilliant if I could shoot my next film in 4:2:2 using my XH A1 :) It sounds complicated though.

I'm afraid I don't even know what an AJA converter or an XDR are.

Can you record in HD-SDI to a laptop hard disk using the component out?

Garrett Low · January 3rd, 2009, 11:48 PM

Component is an analog signal while HD-SDI is digital uncompressed. I don't know of any laptop that has HD-SDI in. I'm not sure if the cost of getting an AJA coverter would be worth it or if you'd be better off looking for a G1. In any case being able to record HD-SDI will require a capture device or desktop with a capture card with HD-SDI.

Also, I'm not sure if the improvement in color correction ability is worth it unless you're going to go to go to th large screen. Even then it may not be. Read this thread:

The Blackout: Just Wrapped Feature with XLH1 - Page 4 - The Digital Video Information Network

post #50. Robert talks about his experience working with HD-SDI footage and HDV footage from an XL H1. It appears that HDV does carry a good amount of color info. Of course 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 will give better results, but properly exposed and shot HDV can look increadible too.

Just my thoughts.

Guy Shaddock · January 4th, 2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Shaddock

I have an A1 and an FSC-60. As you can see from the specs in the BH link above, the FSC is specific to the Canon XH and A1 cameras. It is capable of all of the frame rates, file types etc. I also use the FSC with my HC1 and DVC 30, I just can't get the tapeless option with those two cameras.
I am curious what the advantages of the Sony CF recorder are. I believe it is close to the same size and weight. You have to buy a couple of 32 gig cards to get the capacity of the FSC-60. One advantage of the CF is no moving parts but the Firestore has been built to handle movement and shock. Some FSC owners have replaced the 60 gig drive with a larger drive so even if the HD fails for whatever reason you can replace it with a laptop drive.
BTW although the FS4 apparently will work with the A1 some features will not be available. FSC is the best choice for an A1.

Note as of Jan 5
My mistake. My DVC 30 does in fact work "Tapeless" with the FSC.

Stuart Graham · January 6th, 2009, 10:25 AM

Thanks Garrett. That's a really interesting thread by Robert Sanders. Perhaps miniDV is better after all. It certainly must be more portable and easier for developing shots I imagine. Having to move the extra cables and kit around as the camera moves could be tricky.

Luke Garza · February 3rd, 2009, 07:22 PM

Hey Michael when you recordered of off your A1 with the aja converter into flash xdr what setting did you use on it. And do you know what frame rate it comes out of the compenant input on A1. Is it 60i or is it 24f when you set it to 24f or is it only that when you record to tape. And how much better was the footage recording that way i plan on recording something soon and am thinking of going this route like you did so curious what you thought.

Jad Meouchy · July 6th, 2009, 10:35 AM

I've been using an FS-4HD (w/ 120gb hard drive) with my A1 for over a year and everything is still working flawlessly. I would guess they recommend the newer version so they can make more $$.

XH-A1->component->hd/sdi.. that seems a little bit much in my opinion. When you get to that point, the only thing you are improving, the sensor color resolution, is such a small part of the total picture quality. You're still shooting through the stock lens and ultimately at the mercy of your lighting rig.

Jon Shuler · September 9th, 2009, 11:54 AM

I have been reading the threads and was thinking about getting the MRC1K but some people have connection issues with it. The FS-H200 also takes CF but only accepts one card where the MRC1K takes 2.

The other options are a FS-CV (too expensive for me and do not need all the metadata features), FS-5 or FS-4 (has a HD to worry about and not sure of the failure rate)

Mostly taping sport events and concerts that can run over 2 hours. Want something that is dependable and not having that many moving parts to worry about.

Have narrowed it down to the MRC1K or FS-4 unless the price of the FS-CV comes down a lot. Can anyone help put my mind at ease on which direction I should go?

Jon

Mark Job · September 9th, 2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Shuler

I have been reading the threads and was thinking about getting the MRC1K but some people have connection issues with it. The FS-H200 also takes CF but only accepts one card where the MRC1K takes 2.

The other options are a FS-CV (too expensive for me and do not need all the metadata features), FS-5 or FS-4 (has a HD to worry about and not sure of the failure rate)

Mostly taping sport events and concerts that can run over 2 hours. Want something that is dependable and not having that many moving parts to worry about.

Have narrowed it down to the MRC1K or FS-4 unless the price of the FS-CV comes down a lot. Can anyone help put my mind at ease on which direction I should go?

Jon

......Hi Jon. Since you have a Canon XH-A1, I would suggest you track down a used FireStore FS-C (The *C* designation being for Canon Cameras). This unit should go for around $900.00 to $1,000.00 US on the used Ebay market. This is a good choice since it will do both HDV and DV, plus it will capture the Canon HDV 24 F format as well as HDV 1080i (59.94 Hz). The FS-C will also record in SD & HD Quicktime formats. You may not even need HDV 24 F since you're shooting sport and concert events with your XH A1. The cheapest solution would be to head in that direction. Whatever you do don't bother paying for any new Firestore unless you need the metadata features, since these units are quite pricey IMHO. What is your post situation ? Are you doing any editing to the footage you capture, or are you dumping straight to DVD ?

Mark

John Estcourt · September 10th, 2009, 01:26 AM

Hi Jon,
If you don't need to be mobile then just use a laptop or small PC to capture, it's much cheeper and would give more storage space.
I cover Ice skating all the time and I now capture to a small PC I built just for capturing direct from firewire. 10 hr days are the norm and I dont need to wory about storage capacity.
I also use it for any dance show where Im using a camera in a fixed location, its more reliable than just Tape and saves on captureing time later.
Obviously if you need to be mobile then just ignore all of the above :) cheers
john

Jeff Dillon · October 5th, 2009, 05:53 PM

I also capture to laptop with my XHA1 via Firewire, and works great. But what if I wanted to capture to laptop with my HV40, which has no Firewire port?

Jeff

Len Kaufman · October 15th, 2009, 06:59 AM

Hi--Reading this thread with considerable interest. I'm using XHA1 and XLH1, and wish to capture directly to my laptop, as well as to tape (for safety/backup). I would be using this mainly in a helicopter, doing aerial work.

My question is, would the vibration of the helicopter possibly "upset" the hard drive on my laptop.

Thank you,
Len

Len Kaufman · October 15th, 2009, 08:10 AM

An addendum to my earlier question....

I'm able to record to my laptop with Sony Vegas Pro, via firewire, but on the audio, I get a screeching sound. This is not an immediate concern, as when I shoot the aerial videos, I do not record audio. Just trying to figure out what that might be. Doesn't sound like feedback. The sound is more like that of a train braking on the railroad tracks.

The audio level on the camera (I tried it with the Canon HV20) is set at "normal" for regular taped video.

Now, the remaining test is to see if the vibration of the helicopter will cause the laptop any problems. I know I'll have to turn off the "vibration sensor" on the laptop (Toshiba Satellite), as it is pretty sensitive, and likely to shut the hard drive down with even the slightest motion.

Len

Matt Hoffert · October 21st, 2009, 03:40 PM

i have a few questions for you all...i tried doing a search but that didn't really turn up what i was looking for and i didn't want to highjack any of the other threads dealing with the xha1...anyways, i just bought an xha1 and would like to go tapeless in the future but also like the fact that tapes are a cheap way to archive footage...FYI, i use the newest version of snow leopard and the new final cut studio 3

1.) what tapeless solution would you recommend for the xha1 and why?

2.) is there any way that i could record to the tapeless recorder/hard drive/etc AND a minidv tape at the same time? if so, how?

3.) lastly, i record wildlife and actually use about 10% tops of what i record...so you can imagine i have tons of tapes that i don't need/wasted space...if i used a tapeless solution, after i imported that (useable footage) into final cut/ added it to my timeline/etc, could i export that back to tape with the same quality that it was recorded in, or would i sacrifice a lot of quality?

thanks in advance
matt

January 3rd, 2009, 07:24 PM	#18
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	Thanks for the info Michael and Colin. It would be brilliant if I could shoot my next film in 4:2:2 using my XH A1 :) It sounds complicated though. I'm afraid I don't even know what an AJA converter or an XDR are. Can you record in HD-SDI to a laptop hard disk using the component out? __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

January 6th, 2009, 10:25 AM	#21
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	Thanks Garrett. That's a really interesting thread by Robert Sanders. Perhaps miniDV is better after all. It certainly must be more portable and easier for developing shots I imagine. Having to move the extra cables and kit around as the camera moves could be tricky. __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

September 9th, 2009, 11:54 AM	#24
Jon Shuler New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 17	Torn on tapeless option for XH-A1 I have been reading the threads and was thinking about getting the MRC1K but some people have connection issues with it. The FS-H200 also takes CF but only accepts one card where the MRC1K takes 2. The other options are a FS-CV (too expensive for me and do not need all the metadata features), FS-5 or FS-4 (has a HD to worry about and not sure of the failure rate) Mostly taping sport events and concerts that can run over 2 hours. Want something that is dependable and not having that many moving parts to worry about. Have narrowed it down to the MRC1K or FS-4 unless the price of the FS-CV comes down a lot. Can anyone help put my mind at ease on which direction I should go? Jon

September 10th, 2009, 01:26 AM	#26
John Estcourt Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland, Ayr www.amour weddingvideos.co.uk Posts: 305	Hi Jon, If you don't need to be mobile then just use a laptop or small PC to capture, it's much cheeper and would give more storage space. I cover Ice skating all the time and I now capture to a small PC I built just for capturing direct from firewire. 10 hr days are the norm and I dont need to wory about storage capacity. I also use it for any dance show where Im using a camera in a fixed location, its more reliable than just Tape and saves on captureing time later. Obviously if you need to be mobile then just ignore all of the above :) cheers john __________________ john estcourt www.amourweddingvideos.co.uk

October 15th, 2009, 06:59 AM	#28
Len Kaufman New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hollywood, Florida Posts: 5	What software are you using to capture? Hi--Reading this thread with considerable interest. I'm using XHA1 and XLH1, and wish to capture directly to my laptop, as well as to tape (for safety/backup). I would be using this mainly in a helicopter, doing aerial work. My question is, would the vibration of the helicopter possibly "upset" the hard drive on my laptop. Thank you, Len Last edited by Len Kaufman; October 15th, 2009 at 08:39 AM.

December 22nd, 2008, 08:32 AM	#16
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Sorry Stuart, I thought I had posted another reply but maybe I only saw the preview. I know that some folks have recorded from the component out on their XH-A1 but I couldn't tell you what hardware was used or how good the quality is.

January 1st, 2009, 07:08 AM	#17
Michael Palermo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 25	I've used the component out of my XH-A1 and converted it to HD-SDI via an AJA converter then recorded on a Convergent Design Flash XDR. The picture quality (compression) is superior to the HDV you can get off the tape. I believe the signal is 4:2:2 at the component output as well.

January 3rd, 2009, 11:48 PM	#19
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Component is an analog signal while HD-SDI is digital uncompressed. I don't know of any laptop that has HD-SDI in. I'm not sure if the cost of getting an AJA coverter would be worth it or if you'd be better off looking for a G1. In any case being able to record HD-SDI will require a capture device or desktop with a capture card with HD-SDI. Also, I'm not sure if the improvement in color correction ability is worth it unless you're going to go to go to th large screen. Even then it may not be. Read this thread: The Blackout: Just Wrapped Feature with XLH1 - Page 4 - The Digital Video Information Network post #50. Robert talks about his experience working with HD-SDI footage and HDV footage from an XL H1. It appears that HDV does carry a good amount of color info. Of course 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 will give better results, but properly exposed and shot HDV can look increadible too. Just my thoughts.

February 3rd, 2009, 07:22 PM	#22
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	Hey Michael when you recordered of off your A1 with the aja converter into flash xdr what setting did you use on it. And do you know what frame rate it comes out of the compenant input on A1. Is it 60i or is it 24f when you set it to 24f or is it only that when you record to tape. And how much better was the footage recording that way i plan on recording something soon and am thinking of going this route like you did so curious what you thought.

July 6th, 2009, 10:35 AM	#23
Jad Meouchy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 663	I've been using an FS-4HD (w/ 120gb hard drive) with my A1 for over a year and everything is still working flawlessly. I would guess they recommend the newer version so they can make more $$. XH-A1->component->hd/sdi.. that seems a little bit much in my opinion. When you get to that point, the only thing you are improving, the sensor color resolution, is such a small part of the total picture quality. You're still shooting through the stock lens and ultimately at the mercy of your lighting rig.

October 5th, 2009, 05:53 PM	#27
Jeff Dillon Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bothell, WA Posts: 48	I also capture to laptop with my XHA1 via Firewire, and works great. But what if I wanted to capture to laptop with my HV40, which has no Firewire port? Jeff

October 15th, 2009, 08:10 AM	#29
Len Kaufman New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hollywood, Florida Posts: 5	It works, but... An addendum to my earlier question.... I'm able to record to my laptop with Sony Vegas Pro, via firewire, but on the audio, I get a screeching sound. This is not an immediate concern, as when I shoot the aerial videos, I do not record audio. Just trying to figure out what that might be. Doesn't sound like feedback. The sound is more like that of a train braking on the railroad tracks. The audio level on the camera (I tried it with the Canon HV20) is set at "normal" for regular taped video. Now, the remaining test is to see if the vibration of the helicopter will cause the laptop any problems. I know I'll have to turn off the "vibration sensor" on the laptop (Toshiba Satellite), as it is pretty sensitive, and likely to shut the hard drive down with even the slightest motion. Len

October 21st, 2009, 03:40 PM	#30
Matt Hoffert Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: United States Posts: 41	XHA1 and tapeless/tape at same time? i have a few questions for you all...i tried doing a search but that didn't really turn up what i was looking for and i didn't want to highjack any of the other threads dealing with the xha1...anyways, i just bought an xha1 and would like to go tapeless in the future but also like the fact that tapes are a cheap way to archive footage...FYI, i use the newest version of snow leopard and the new final cut studio 3 1.) what tapeless solution would you recommend for the xha1 and why? 2.) is there any way that i could record to the tapeless recorder/hard drive/etc AND a minidv tape at the same time? if so, how? 3.) lastly, i record wildlife and actually use about 10% tops of what i record...so you can imagine i have tons of tapes that i don't need/wasted space...if i used a tapeless solution, after i imported that (useable footage) into final cut/ added it to my timeline/etc, could i export that back to tape with the same quality that it was recorded in, or would i sacrifice a lot of quality? thanks in advance matt