GREAT IDEA (but does tapeless work?) at DVinfo.net

Rich DePaoli · March 5th, 2004, 12:18 AM

I'm not sure if the marketing/sales guys want us to know too much too soon about this stuff.

Been trying for days to get responses regarding a configuration for a dependable turnkey live studio (before I buy). I'll bet I can rely on someone here to give me an opinion at least.

I would like to use the MXPRODV Mixer and dump to an fs-1 for my master.

I will then convert to mpeg2 and save to cd rom.

I would like to know 2 things from the masters of tapeless ideas:
1 (how do you control the daisy-chained firewire drives (how do
they know when to record)
2 how seamless is this for real with pinnacle pro one into adobe
premiere 6.5?

I would like to know if I am better off building the ultimate video toaster mobile workstation or to build an ultimate MXprodv component system.

Many...many many opinions are welcome.
Thanks,
Rich DePaoli
www.marshallnow.com

Rob Lohman · March 5th, 2004, 04:53 AM

When you say "firewire drive" are you talking about an harddisk
or a tape unit? Harddisks get assigned "drive letters" and thus
are always uniquely identified on any OS.

Daniel Kohl · March 5th, 2004, 05:11 AM

I'm banking on it!

I’m not sure I can help you, because I’m not familiar with the MXPRODV.

but I have a few questions:

Why do you want to convert to mpeg2 and save to CD ROM? What do you plan to use the video material for? Are you thinking about archiving/mastering your material as mpeg2? It kind of sounds like that.

As far as daisy-chained drives, it depends on your capture software. The Mac based capture softwares that I’m familiar with (FCP, B-TV), give you the option to choose which available volumes (drives) you want to capture to. There is then the option to designate which available volume(s) should be used as overflow. You can list the volumes in ascending order so that you can decide which volume will be used as an overflow first, second, third and so on. I don’t know how the FS-1 deals with this.

And unfortunately for your questions, I am a Mac based "tapeless enthusiast”

Rich DePaoli · March 5th, 2004, 07:26 AM

Thanks you guys for explaining the FS-1 OS a bit to me.
I'm more confident about it's ability to store video & work with other hard drives in the field.

Rob:
I was actually thinking "hard drive" when I posted this thread...but can you daisy-chain other media as well?

Daniel:
I'm still not clear what format I need the final product in.
I'll be capturing avi in the field, Editing in Premiere, & delivering to ad-insertion hardware at cable tv head-ends.

MPEG 2 is compatible with the cable TV hardware (adtec soloist & duet)

Now, as I understand the FS-1 (still a bit of a mystery), I should be able to treat my field drives as workstation plug & play drives when I get back to the studio. Thereby, simply importing clips into premiere right off the field drives or the FS-1.

If, in fact, I can use the Fs-1 and the FIREWIRE DRIVES as reliable field masters, which video mixer's have compatable firewire outputs to accommodate: MXPRODV makes the most sense to me since it has firewire outputs & it's a sister to the FS-1.

More ideas or mobile configurations would be welcome.

I'm also wondering if I can review the field-captured video
without a computer (direct from the FS-1).

Rich

Matt McEwen · March 19th, 2004, 10:17 AM

Hi Rich,

Let me see if I can explain FS-1 a little better.

FireStore FS-1 acts as a disk controller and file formatter. It takes an incoming DV video stream from a camcorder (or DV mixer, DV deck etc.), converts the signal to a DTE Technology based file (.mov, .omf, .avi, .dv etc.) and writes it to an attached FireWire disk drive. In this regard, it is just like a computer. The user can control record and playback capabilities from FireStore just like controlling a VTR.

The FireWire disk drive can then be removed from the FS-1 and connected directly to any computer with an OHCI FireWire port. The disk will mount like a standard removable volume and clips can be imported directly into the NLE's timeline without first having to transfer or convert the files.

Hope that helps,
Matt McEwen

Rob Lohman · March 20th, 2004, 05:43 AM

Rich: yes, you should be able to daisy chain other equipment
as well (as long as it is firewire)

I don't think you can playback the footage directly from the FS1.
It is only used to record the footage (to a harddisk).

Daniel Kohl · March 20th, 2004, 12:56 PM

Rob I think your wrong.

The FS-1 is like a video recorder, you can play footage back if the FS-1 has a monitor or TV attached. Matt said the Firestore is just like a VTR. I don’t know if the FS-1 has a component out or not though. I’m assuming yes.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Vic Owen · March 20th, 2004, 07:28 PM

Hmmm....maybe my FS-1 is different, but there is no provision for TV, VCR, etc. connections. You can connect it to a camera, computer & FW HD. There are no a/v or component outputs.

Its primary function is to allow you to record from your camera directly to a FW drive. It does that quite well.

Read Matt's post again -- he explains it well.

Matt McEwen · March 20th, 2004, 07:47 PM

Hi,

To clarify, it is possible to playback from FS-1 into other DV devices via FireWire. There is no analog output on FS-1. The easiest thing to do is if your camcorder features a DV input (as well as an output), playback the FS-1 through your camcorder and monitor playback on the EVF or LCD (you may need to switch your camcorder to VTR mode). Most camcorder's also feature a DV codec so if you wish to view it on a bigger screen, connect a monitor to the analog outputs. There is also quite a few low cost DV converter boxes now available.

Hope that helps.

Matt McEwen

Daniel Kohl · March 21st, 2004, 06:32 AM

Sorry about that, I haven’t ever seen or used a FS-1, so I shouldn’t really be offering any advice on the subject.

Neil Goodwill · April 9th, 2004, 05:37 AM

If you need an analogue recording device there is now the nNovia A2d which also captures DV. It is a big temptation for me because I would love to re-use my old professional stand alone Sony camera with superb Canon lense. The only drawback is the $1400 price tag. Does anyone have any user knowledge of the nNovia?

March 5th, 2004, 12:18 AM	#1
Rich DePaoli Tourist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Marshall, MO Posts: 2	GREAT IDEA (but does tapeless work?) I'm not sure if the marketing/sales guys want us to know too much too soon about this stuff. Been trying for days to get responses regarding a configuration for a dependable turnkey live studio (before I buy). I'll bet I can rely on someone here to give me an opinion at least. I would like to use the MXPRODV Mixer and dump to an fs-1 for my master. I will then convert to mpeg2 and save to cd rom. I would like to know 2 things from the masters of tapeless ideas: 1 (how do you control the daisy-chained firewire drives (how do they know when to record) 2 how seamless is this for real with pinnacle pro one into adobe premiere 6.5? I would like to know if I am better off building the ultimate video toaster mobile workstation or to build an ultimate MXprodv component system. Many...many many opinions are welcome. Thanks, Rich DePaoli www.marshallnow.com __________________ Rich

March 5th, 2004, 04:53 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	When you say "firewire drive" are you talking about an harddisk or a tape unit? Harddisks get assigned "drive letters" and thus are always uniquely identified on any OS. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 5th, 2004, 05:11 AM	#3
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	I'm banking on it! I’m not sure I can help you, because I’m not familiar with the MXPRODV. but I have a few questions: Why do you want to convert to mpeg2 and save to CD ROM? What do you plan to use the video material for? Are you thinking about archiving/mastering your material as mpeg2? It kind of sounds like that. As far as daisy-chained drives, it depends on your capture software. The Mac based capture softwares that I’m familiar with (FCP, B-TV), give you the option to choose which available volumes (drives) you want to capture to. There is then the option to designate which available volume(s) should be used as overflow. You can list the volumes in ascending order so that you can decide which volume will be used as an overflow first, second, third and so on. I don’t know how the FS-1 deals with this. And unfortunately for your questions, I am a Mac based "tapeless enthusiast” __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

March 5th, 2004, 07:26 AM	#4
Rich DePaoli Tourist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Marshall, MO Posts: 2	ULTIMATE MOBILE VT3 or ULTIMATE MOBILE COMPONENT Thanks you guys for explaining the FS-1 OS a bit to me. I'm more confident about it's ability to store video & work with other hard drives in the field. Rob: I was actually thinking "hard drive" when I posted this thread...but can you daisy-chain other media as well? Daniel: I'm still not clear what format I need the final product in. I'll be capturing avi in the field, Editing in Premiere, & delivering to ad-insertion hardware at cable tv head-ends. MPEG 2 is compatible with the cable TV hardware (adtec soloist & duet) Now, as I understand the FS-1 (still a bit of a mystery), I should be able to treat my field drives as workstation plug & play drives when I get back to the studio. Thereby, simply importing clips into premiere right off the field drives or the FS-1. If, in fact, I can use the Fs-1 and the FIREWIRE DRIVES as reliable field masters, which video mixer's have compatable firewire outputs to accommodate: MXPRODV makes the most sense to me since it has firewire outputs & it's a sister to the FS-1. More ideas or mobile configurations would be welcome. I'm also wondering if I can review the field-captured video without a computer (direct from the FS-1). Rich __________________ Rich

March 20th, 2004, 05:43 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Rich: yes, you should be able to daisy chain other equipment as well (as long as it is firewire) I don't think you can playback the footage directly from the FS1. It is only used to record the footage (to a harddisk). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 19th, 2004, 10:17 AM	#5
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	Hi Rich, Let me see if I can explain FS-1 a little better. FireStore FS-1 acts as a disk controller and file formatter. It takes an incoming DV video stream from a camcorder (or DV mixer, DV deck etc.), converts the signal to a DTE Technology based file (.mov, .omf, .avi, .dv etc.) and writes it to an attached FireWire disk drive. In this regard, it is just like a computer. The user can control record and playback capabilities from FireStore just like controlling a VTR. The FireWire disk drive can then be removed from the FS-1 and connected directly to any computer with an OHCI FireWire port. The disk will mount like a standard removable volume and clips can be imported directly into the NLE's timeline without first having to transfer or convert the files. Hope that helps, Matt McEwen

March 20th, 2004, 12:56 PM	#7
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Rob I think your wrong. The FS-1 is like a video recorder, you can play footage back if the FS-1 has a monitor or TV attached. Matt said the Firestore is just like a VTR. I don’t know if the FS-1 has a component out or not though. I’m assuming yes. Maybe I'm wrong. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

March 20th, 2004, 07:28 PM	#8
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	Hmmm....maybe my FS-1 is different, but there is no provision for TV, VCR, etc. connections. You can connect it to a camera, computer & FW HD. There are no a/v or component outputs. Its primary function is to allow you to record from your camera directly to a FW drive. It does that quite well. Read Matt's post again -- he explains it well. __________________ -- Vic Owen --

March 20th, 2004, 07:47 PM	#9
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	Hi, To clarify, it is possible to playback from FS-1 into other DV devices via FireWire. There is no analog output on FS-1. The easiest thing to do is if your camcorder features a DV input (as well as an output), playback the FS-1 through your camcorder and monitor playback on the EVF or LCD (you may need to switch your camcorder to VTR mode). Most camcorder's also feature a DV codec so if you wish to view it on a bigger screen, connect a monitor to the analog outputs. There is also quite a few low cost DV converter boxes now available. Hope that helps. Matt McEwen

March 21st, 2004, 06:32 AM	#10
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Sorry about that, I haven’t ever seen or used a FS-1, so I shouldn’t really be offering any advice on the subject. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

April 9th, 2004, 05:37 AM	#11
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	If you need an analogue recording device there is now the nNovia A2d which also captures DV. It is a big temptation for me because I would love to re-use my old professional stand alone Sony camera with superb Canon lense. The only drawback is the $1400 price tag. Does anyone have any user knowledge of the nNovia?