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#76 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Stillwater Oklahoma
Posts: 39
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#77 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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#78 |
Tourist
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lecce ITALY
Posts: 3
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Hi!!
any update with your new recorder?? i'm still interested about it..when you'll be ready, please let me know: info@onboardcamera.it bye! |
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#79 |
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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Project Progress Update
Right now folks are waiting for me to inject a little more cash, which I will do shortly, but our project is *far* from the prototype stage at this point I'm sad to say. I am seriously considering making the recorder a full uncompressed RAW recorder only, with perhaps, the capability to record HDV via FW interface.
....The reason why I'm leaning more toward a full uncompressed only recorder, is to..... a) Get around paying expensive royalties to the MPEG folks. b) The new SDXC spec will definitely be fast enough and large enough in capacity (1 TB +) to make uncompressed capture practical. |
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#80 |
New Boot
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 19
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Any Progress?
Hi there,
I know I may be jumping the gun but I was just wondering if you have had any updates, I have been following this project in the shadows and it seems amazingly promising! Have you decided to make it an uncompressed RAW recorder only? I wish you luck!
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Stake Productions - Director, Editor, Cinematographer, ...Sony HVR Z5E |
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#81 |
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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Special Announcement
Hi friends:
As of today we have made the decision to make our new SD Card SSDR record totally in the uncompressed 10 Bit 4:2:2 color space. We will also build in 4:4:4 video recording capability. At this time, we will not be dealing with any compressed recording codec. We may develop our own proprietary codec for compressed recording at a later date. |
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#82 |
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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Update for May 17th 2010
Hi Friends:
My apologies for my lack of updates in this thread. The project has slowed to a crawl, but has not stopped. I got a fully functioning prototype board which recorded HD-SDI Full Raster 1920 x 1080 in 4:2:2 uncompressed in 10 bit once, then promptly failed and never recorded (or played back) another signal since ! I think I blew the circuit because our power supply is flawed. I think our power supply is unstable, and you need really good stability or you blow all your (Expensive chips). I have decided to offer 2 modes: Compressed & uncompressed. The compression is our own proprietary codec (Because we're too cheap to pay anyone else any freaking royalties). I should start a contest to see what we should call our new codec ;-) (How about the new Markvision codec ?) I will suggest whoever winds up purchasing one of our boxes to playout our compressed stuff into their FCP or Avid NLE via the HD-SDI, so they have the option to capture in whatever codec they want Which we don't have to pay royalties for !). Uncompressed recording is well.......uncompressed. Play it out in realtime. |
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#83 |
New Boot
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Namsos Norway
Posts: 7
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DNxHD
What about Avids DNxHD? I always thought its a free and open source codec? BTW: Thanks for your approach towards an affordable recording device. Hope to hear from it soon... :)
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#84 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
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Quote:
It's OK to envision making a data recorder that records 10 bit uncompressed HD 4:4:4 to a device the size of a matchbook...but eventually you have to take a few things into account. Not paying royalties is a great goal, but the bottom line is the industry has several reasonably established codec families that have spawned equally reasonable workflows for acquistion-to-post. Uncompressed HD video (or 2K or 4K for that matter) end-to-end workflow is a concept that always sounds great when discussing how we all want to be uncompromising image makers, but when the practicality is explored, compressed acquisition just keeps winning. Uncompressed footage simply makes no sense in the context of a location crew...HDcamSR is clumsy enough, and that's MPEG4. Uncompressed footage would take incredible amounts of data storage to store redundantly in the field, not to mention that the data dumps would be less than even real time without some sort of a custom card reader and a serious workstation in the field (you'll likely not keep up with a laptop and USB drives for transferring this sort of stuff) Now...edit. Uncompressed doesn't take a lot in the CPU torque department...it's about throughput. However, to get multiple streams of uncompressed requires serious harddrive speed with extremely well developed infrastructure, not to mention cavernous capacity. At some point, a discussion about what the real advantages are between uncompressed and say, CineForm 10 bit, 4:2:2 needs to happen. For a customer, there are precious few (if any). Yes, CineForm is a proprietary codec, but if a customer can buy CineForm and streamline the whole facility and make post production easier, it's a small price to pay. Whether or not -you- want to pay royalties has little to do with what makes sense for your customer. I use a wide variety of established codecs. My post process is predictable, my post and acquisition infrastructure is manageable and requires an investment that makes sense. You're bent on making a device that will affect workflow downstream in a way that will make editing the footage completely impractical for those who are shopping in the price range you propose...and the part of the market that would actually find the specifications you propose compelling, is likely not large enough for you to really see a return on your investment through any serious quantity of sales, not to mention that the pricepoint you propose will make it hard for that group to take the device seriously. Not to mention proposing a data recorder that has to be transferred into a post workstation REAL TIME? Are you serious? Even HDcamSR can go in at 2X for crying out loud. You are now rationalizing the need for your device waaaay past a point where practicality exists anymore. There are any number of innovative ways to deliver a product with really usable features to a market large enough to make your efforts worthwhile...with a file size small enough to be practical. ...at this point, I'd consider what is possible to actually sell and support before you continue to simply explore what you can conceivably -develop-. (...in the nicest way possible.)
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TimK Kolb Productions |
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#85 | |||||||||||
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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A Reasonable Approach in the Details
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#86 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
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I assumed you were making something to sell...you are obviously investing a lot of time and effort in this...
You've mentioned a price point a couple times in the thread... If this device is only for high-end origination, the higher you go in the market place, the fewer buyers there are to capture...I think the range you've mentioned is far too inexpensive for that market. As far as real-time capture...you must be referring to FCP I assume. i don't use FCP...I'm RT native to anything including DSLR and RED...so yes, real-time capture on the last project I did which was 15 minutes in edited length and had over ten hours of interview source material would have been quite a handicap. ...and obviously an hour of storage would not have been enough. I've done some television commercials where there has been an hour or less of source, but i think when you mention one hour of storage, you must be thinking that editors only do commercials...and they never have two in the house at the same time. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the cameras will do the compression...HDSDI and HDMI are not general purpose data-pipes like FW. They send 'digital baseband'...uncompressed down the line. You can't use an HDV camcorder to record and run a recording device downstream via HDMI and get HDV... The downstream recorder gets uncompressed. HDSDI as well. Good luck with it...I guess I'm thinking in terms of market, not product. It seems like a market that S Two and Codex pretty much have already...it's small and exclusive and requires post production resources that, while less expensive than ever before, are still at the top of the scale.
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TimK Kolb Productions |
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#87 | |||||||
Trustee
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,138
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Making Something To Sell
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..Yes. We think this technology should be available to a broader range of independent videographers. Not just high end shooters, but I respect both, and have hoped for a more democratic device which could be easily adopted by the proletariat at large. I want to make this device retail for just under $1,000.00 US Dollars IF we ever get to the retail stage in this project. For now, I must build *The First* device which I want to see and use. Only when we have one in hand to take to NAB will we be happy and see what we can see at that point. Quote:
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A) Batch capture in really low quality just good enough to see what I was doing, then batch recapture at whatever online quality was required. In this way you could edit long or short form projects with little storage space. It seems as though many editors either don't know, or have forgotten the good old batch capture and re-capture feature. This is why most NLE applications still have this feature. It works through both the FW and RS-422 interface. Avid Media Composer, Final Cut Pro, Sony Vegas, Adobe Premiere all possess this basic post capability. B) Capture and work in halves for long form projects. Edit one hour at a time of a 3 hour or 2 hour program. Quote:
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