How many GB per minute from 16mm to HDrive? at DVinfo.net

Nick Medrano · September 27th, 2007, 03:01 PM

How many GB is it per minute to capture from 16mm film to Hard drive?

Do you think it would be possible to squeeze uncompressed data to a USB flash drive that can be used to carry around? So many questions...but what's the biggest storage size we can get a USB flash drive these days?

Thanks!

Jim Andrada · September 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Well, not sure you can get this much in a little USB thumb sized "drive", but if you get a USB Compact Flash reader (maybe $15 to $30) you can easily get 16GB Compact Flash cards at reasonable prices. I have two of them that I use in my Sound Devices 702 and I transfer the audio to the PC with one of these readers.

Nick Medrano · September 27th, 2007, 03:56 PM

right, but do u think we can squeeze uncompressed HD data onto a usb thumb drive? Probably not enough space on there....

Bennis Hahn · September 27th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Define uncompressed HD.

Ar you talking 720p or 1080p. Are we talking _full uncompressed_ 4:4:4 or some visually lossless 4:2:2 footage?

I don't think it will work either way.

Jim Andrada · September 27th, 2007, 04:40 PM

I guess the question is "How much uncompressed data"?

Obviously you can get 16GB

I think the data rate is also a big issue. As I recall the Panny P2 cards actually stripe the data to several cards in a RAID configuration to get the sustained data rate high enough.

I'm not sure about the data rate on the new flash cards (PCI-x)

Jamie Allan · September 28th, 2007, 03:47 AM

Uncompressed 10-bit HD at 1080i/30fps/RGB is 249MB/s, one minute is 15GB...

Download the AJA data rate calculator - you will love this tool:

http://www.aja.com/ajashare/AJA_Data...tor_v2.app.tar

Nick Medrano · September 29th, 2007, 09:26 AM

The reason I was asking about this was because I was wondering if we will soon be able to do "tapeless" transfers from 16mm film to hard drive (Usb stick) in the very near future. It will help save shipping costs and also just be much more convenient. Lots of stock video places are doing hard drive transfers and doing away with tapes...but you gotta either send them a hard drive or buy one of their hard drives. It gets pretty expensive.

Giroud Francois · September 29th, 2007, 11:55 AM

At the memory size required for the job you ask, a simple 2.5" (around 100gig) will cost infinitely less than the same amount in a solid state memory format. simply use a cheap USB box for hardisk.
and it will a lot faster too.
yes , harddisk still rules.....

Jim Andrada · September 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM

I'm using a couple of 160GB 2.5" hard drives for recording in addition to the 16GB flash cards.

The drives are maybe 10X or 12X cheaper thank flash, and the larger external drives are maybe half s expensive as the 2.5"

I don't see the flash memory cards catching up to hard drives in the next few years as the technology to increase hard drive capacity is better known. Now that disk drive have gone to perpendicular recording, the next thing on the horizon appears to be heat assisted recording where a small laser is used to heat the reagion that's about to be magnetized.

The heat lowers the coercivity or in other wods makes it possible to switch the magnetic state with less power, which translates into the ability to write at higher frequency which equates to higher density.

Of course, at elevated temperatures, the medium can revert to its unwritten state easily as well, but since the region cools quickly the magnetic domains will remain stable at the lower temperature.

I think it will be harder to get the flash technology to improve as quickly as the hard drive

September 27th, 2007, 03:01 PM	#1
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	How many GB per minute from 16mm to HDrive? How many GB is it per minute to capture from 16mm film to Hard drive? Do you think it would be possible to squeeze uncompressed data to a USB flash drive that can be used to carry around? So many questions...but what's the biggest storage size we can get a USB flash drive these days? Thanks!

September 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM	#2
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Well, not sure you can get this much in a little USB thumb sized "drive", but if you get a USB Compact Flash reader (maybe $15 to $30) you can easily get 16GB Compact Flash cards at reasonable prices. I have two of them that I use in my Sound Devices 702 and I transfer the audio to the PC with one of these readers.

September 27th, 2007, 03:56 PM	#3
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	right, but do u think we can squeeze uncompressed HD data onto a usb thumb drive? Probably not enough space on there....

September 27th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#4
Bennis Hahn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 221	Define uncompressed HD. Ar you talking 720p or 1080p. Are we talking _full uncompressed_ 4:4:4 or some visually lossless 4:2:2 footage? I don't think it will work either way.

September 27th, 2007, 04:40 PM	#5
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I guess the question is "How much uncompressed data"? Obviously you can get 16GB I think the data rate is also a big issue. As I recall the Panny P2 cards actually stripe the data to several cards in a RAID configuration to get the sustained data rate high enough. I'm not sure about the data rate on the new flash cards (PCI-x)

September 28th, 2007, 03:47 AM	#6
Jamie Allan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Notts, UK Posts: 101	Uncompressed 10-bit HD at 1080i/30fps/RGB is 249MB/s, one minute is 15GB... Download the AJA data rate calculator - you will love this tool: http://www.aja.com/ajashare/AJA_Data...tor_v2.app.tar

September 29th, 2007, 09:26 AM	#7
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	The reason I was asking about this was because I was wondering if we will soon be able to do "tapeless" transfers from 16mm film to hard drive (Usb stick) in the very near future. It will help save shipping costs and also just be much more convenient. Lots of stock video places are doing hard drive transfers and doing away with tapes...but you gotta either send them a hard drive or buy one of their hard drives. It gets pretty expensive.

September 29th, 2007, 11:55 AM	#8
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	At the memory size required for the job you ask, a simple 2.5" (around 100gig) will cost infinitely less than the same amount in a solid state memory format. simply use a cheap USB box for hardisk. and it will a lot faster too. yes , harddisk still rules.....

September 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM	#9
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I'm using a couple of 160GB 2.5" hard drives for recording in addition to the 16GB flash cards. The drives are maybe 10X or 12X cheaper thank flash, and the larger external drives are maybe half s expensive as the 2.5" I don't see the flash memory cards catching up to hard drives in the next few years as the technology to increase hard drive capacity is better known. Now that disk drive have gone to perpendicular recording, the next thing on the horizon appears to be heat assisted recording where a small laser is used to heat the reagion that's about to be magnetized. The heat lowers the coercivity or in other wods makes it possible to switch the magnetic state with less power, which translates into the ability to write at higher frequency which equates to higher density. Of course, at elevated temperatures, the medium can revert to its unwritten state easily as well, but since the region cools quickly the magnetic domains will remain stable at the lower temperature. I think it will be harder to get the flash technology to improve as quickly as the hard drive