Thank you Tramm! real world Magic Lantern at work in the Chinese riots

Video: Uighur residents confront troops | World news | guardian.co.uk

A really quick thank you to Tramm for making my life much better, I'm writing this in between the rioting. I've been using magic lantern for all our pieces to camera with our reporter during the riots in Xinjiang, China. Also been using it bit in the demonstrations themselves.

The finished piece is a mixture of 5dmkII, Sony A1 and Reuters footage but even in low res on the web I think you can tell the 5dmkII stuff.

Dan

(ps - forgot to add there is a gallery of 5dmkII stills here http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gall...ture=349978668)

[Jeremy Nicholl]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

For a one man deal, I can't recommend the juicedLink enough - especially if you use it with an XLR splitter. That would have let me crank the gain into one channel and run it low into the other. That's truly a set and forget setup.

I’ll ask a really basic question in the interests of clarity.

What you mean by the above is mic into XLR splitter cable, which is then connected to the two separate Juicedlink channels: correct? The disadvantage I see is that you now effectively have only one audio track: for example you could no longer also run a lav into the Juicedlink. Presumably the solution to that would be to use a Juicedlink CX431, which has 4 channels. I’m assuming that the CX431 operates identically and as well as the CX231: the spec appears identical apart from the 2 extra channels in the CX431.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Nicholl

The disadvantage I see is that you now effectively have only one audio track..

That's true. Recording a high/low signal means that you dedicate two channels to one source.

Presumably the solution to that would be to use a Juicedlink CX431, which has 4 channels. I’m assuming that the CX431 operates identically and as well as the CX231: the spec appears identical apart from the 2 extra channels in the CX431.

Except that the 5D2 only has two channels, so you'd have to pre-mix the lav and shotgun and record the combo high in one channel and low in the other.

If this the goal, I'd build a 1/8" cable with a -20dB pad on one channel. You can then use the juicedLink CX 231 with both channels set to "center" and you'd have a single gain control for the lav and another for the shotgun.

But this trades one problem for another - you can protect against overload, but you have one chance to get the lav/shotgun mix right and they can't be separated. That seems worse than possible clipping to me.

[Jeremy Nicholl]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Except that the 5D2 only has two channels, so you'd have to pre-mix the lav and shotgun and record the combo high in one channel and low in the other.

But this trades one problem for another - you can protect against overload, but you have one chance to get the lav/shotgun mix right and they can't be separated. That seems worse than possible clipping to me.

Drat, you’re right. I thought I was being clever, but I forgot the 5d has only 2 channels, and my solution is worse than the problem. I’ve been idly wondering whether I should buy the 4 channel Juicedlink rather than the 2, but couldn’t realistically think of ways I’d often use the extra channels; I thought this might be that use.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Nicholl

...I’ve been idly wondering whether I should buy the 4 channel Juicedlink rather than the 2, but couldn’t realistically think of ways I’d often use the extra channels...

A four channel juicedLink could be useful when recording multiple lavs - as long as the dialog doesn't step on itself. For instance, this could work with highbrow historical fiction - every line is discrete - but don't try it with a David Mamet play. :)

[Goh Iromoto]

Thank you so much guys for your responses,

I just made the plunge and should be getting all my gear soon (Juicedlink, Rode NTG-2, Boostaroo, etc). It won't make it for this weekend's shoot, but I'll be shooting mostly b-roll anyway :)

Tramm, I also made sure to send a donation via Paypal. Well deserved and I wish only the best for future developments. Good luck and thanks again :)

After trying out to Magic Lantern firmware, just had a few more questions in relation to some of the previous reply posts

1. What is the difference between mgain (analog?) and dgain (digital)? Chris you mentioned you use 17 in ML (looks like Jon uses the same settings). Is there a discussion thread out there (I couldn't find) which posts best mgain/dgain settings for certain preamp/mic combos (at least for the menu of the firmware, not the preamp)?

2. Jon, really cool to hear your analysis from your one-man shoot last weekend. Appreciate it a lot. You mentioned you needed a spare cable (yours seemed to have died). Were you referring to an XLR cable?

3. Fully agree with the checklist idea - use it until it's ingrained, then let habit take over :)

Thanks again guys for the help and advice. These forums truly are a special space :)

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Goh Iromoto

...What is the difference between mgain (analog?) and dgain (digital)? ...

In general, you want to use the cleanest analog gain available to achieve the desired levels. I find that +17dB analog in the camera is still pretty clean.

Digital gain can be achieved in the camera, or in post. Every time you turn it up 6dB you lose one bit of dynamic range. I prefer to leave it at zero in camera and boost in post, if needed. I get the same noise either way, but by leaving the in-camera digital gain at zero, I maximize my headroom, just in case I get a loud, unexpected sound.

[Goh Iromoto]

Thanks Jon, makes sense.
Appreciate the reply as always :)

[Chris Barcellos]

[QUOTE=Goh Iromoto;1172819] Chris you mentioned you use 17 in ML (looks like Jon uses the same settings). Is there a discussion thread out there (I couldn't find) which posts best mgain/dgain settings for certain preamp/mic combos (at least for the menu of the firmware, not the preamp)?

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...k-cx231-6.html

John did some multiple mic testing on his exploration of the sound setup here, which included the Magic Lantern firmware. We are early in this game, and each of us is using what we have on hand and testing as we go. I have Me66, and AT399 lavs and I have use Juiced Link and my Eng44. Eng44 definitely has more power in the preamp, and I can probably set both gains at 0 with the ME 66. On the Juice Link at close range with the ME66, I have shot 10 analog, and 12 digital, at Jon's recommendation, and come out well. But of you are farther away from you subject, I think 17 analog is a better way to go.

I did shoot the AT399 lavs into the juiced link. Lav were not on body, and were planted near the talent. As I recall, I had analog at 17, and levels were still a bit low in that situation. On the body would have been fine.

[Chris Barcellos]

First, I miss named the AT 899 as 399s.

I just did a little run with the Audio Technica 899 lav into the Juiced Link. It seems to match up well. I was updating my YouTube Diary on my recently acquired Bells Palsy condition. I set the JuicedLlink on high preamp gain, and trim full on, digital audio at 0, and analog at 17. I did no adjustment in post. You can take a look here:

YouTube - Bells Palsy: Day4

[David W. Taylor]

I use an Edirol R-44 4 track portable to record separate sound for my 5D2, and also often run a Zoom H2 (internal mics), which I use for 4 channel 'surround sound' ambiences. I have never contemplated the 'on board' sound of the camera.
However it occured to me that putting the main mic (usually a Sennheiser 416) output onto the camera as a 'sync guide track' might speed up re-syncing the audio in post as I often leave the recorder running between shots.
Luckily the R-44 has separate channel outputs on phonos...so feeding the first two outputs into the camera mic input does work...but the R-44 needs to have the outputs padded down as I'm sticking 'line level' into 'mic level' of course.
I've just tried Magic Lantern, for the first time and find that setting the analogue gain to '0' gives a clean feed back onto the camera...so thank you Tramm, I'll give it a try out on my next movie.
I can also confirm what Jon has noticed, that the first take is distorted and on subsequent takes the first second of audio is also, but it then the gain drops.
I also notice that taking the Magic Lantern out of 'Live View' produces a corrupt screen..no problem but I like to release 'Live View' when not shooting to save batteries and 'keep it all cool'.
Dave T.

[Yang Wen]

Awesome work Dan! Truly inspiring.. Looks like you were caught up in the riots? If I may ask, judging from your name - are you Asian by appearance? If so, did you feel threatened by either side in the tension there between Han and Uighur?