Sony DVDA at DVinfo.net

Eric Manacsa · July 23rd, 2007, 10:52 AM

I gave my client 3 DVDs and she reponded via email:

"Each copy freezes at various points. I have played them all on three different DVD players and have encountered the same problem. Sometimes the DVD continues to move forward after several seconds of being frozen, but the last time it would not go forward but simply went back to the menu."

I've asked her to send me more details like time and chapters on when this is happening.

I'm making AVIs in Vegas 7e. I'm making the DVDs in DVD Architech. My burner is a SATA DVD burner...I forgot the brand.

I'm using Verbatim DL DVDs.

I threw in abount 7 different AVIs ranging from 5 to 20 minutes in length.

Is it possible that the freezing occurs when one file ends and looks for the next files to play?

Any advice would be appreciated. I would like to correct this right a way.

Eric Manacsa · July 23rd, 2007, 10:55 AM

Also, the AVIs are huge and I rely on DVDA to optimize the files to make them fit on the DVD DL. Does this lead to problems?

Don Bloom · July 23rd, 2007, 11:41 AM

why not render to mpeg and ac3 audio in vegas. That way you can set the bitrate to just what you need.

There are many free bitrate calulaters on the web but remember to allow some room for menus.

Anytime I've had DVDA optimize the AVIs I seem to run into some sort of goofiness with it so I always render in Vegas. Do the audio in AC3 and that will save lots of room so you can use a higher bitrate than if the audio is PCM.

HTHs
Don

Eric Manacsa · July 23rd, 2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

why not render to mpeg and ac3 audio in vegas. That way you can set the bitrate to just what you need.

There are many free bitrate calulaters on the web but remember to allow some room for menus.

Anytime I've had DVDA optimize the AVIs I seem to run into some sort of goofiness with it so I always render in Vegas. Do the audio in AC3 and that will save lots of room so you can use a higher bitrate than if the audio is PCM.

HTHs
Don

When I used the optimize DVD tool in DVDA the default was at "8". I can go higher without filling up the DL DVD. Should I try to push it higher? or is rendering 2 MPEG2 best? Will I specify bitrate in Veegas or in DVDA?

Why would bit rate cause freezing?

Thanks for the help.

Don Bloom · July 23rd, 2007, 02:34 PM

I wouldn't go higher at all. Most DVD players would probably choke on it. Even in DVDA the default can be and should be changed and set for the size of the project. That's why I prefer to render in Vegas and set the bitrate to what I know it should be according to the chart or calculator I use for the size of the project. In Vegas you set the parameters you want and need for the project when you go to render to MPEG2 in the FILE>RENDER AS menu -- goto CUSTOM>VIDEO and set the AVERAGE rateto what it should be for the job. I never set the MAX rate to anything over 8 and I set the MIN to 2.

The reader of the player most often just won't see the information of the disc at a rate higher than 8 and honestly I really can't see a reason for going over that anyway. Even a rate of 6 or so produces a fine image-I've done some long form stuff where I've had to go to 4.2 to 4.6 and still had a decent enough image but I prefer to stay above that when possible.
Edward Troxel has lots of info about bitrates and has a chart to determine the proper rate in one of his newsletters. Find a post by Edward and click on the link in his signature to get to the stuff.

HTHs
Don

Eric Manacsa · July 23rd, 2007, 03:01 PM

Many many thanks Don.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

I wouldn't go higher at all. Most DVD players would probably choke on it. Even in DVDA the default can be and should be changed and set for the size of the project. That's why I prefer to render in Vegas and set the bitrate to what I know it should be according to the chart or calculator I use for the size of the project. In Vegas you set the parameters you want and need for the project when you go to render to MPEG2 in the FILE>RENDER AS menu -- goto CUSTOM>VIDEO and set the AVERAGE rateto what it should be for the job. I never set the MAX rate to anything over 8 and I set the MIN to 2.

The reader of the player most often just won't see the information of the disc at a rate higher than 8 and honestly I really can't see a reason for going over that anyway. Even a rate of 6 or so produces a fine image-I've done some long form stuff where I've had to go to 4.2 to 4.6 and still had a decent enough image but I prefer to stay above that when possible.
Edward Troxel has lots of info about bitrates and has a chart to determine the proper rate in one of his newsletters. Find a post by Edward and click on the link in his signature to get to the stuff.

HTHs
Don

George Wing · July 23rd, 2007, 03:31 PM

How long is the total duration of all the video clips combined (I'm thinking less than ~125 minutes -- which means you can encode using ~4500kbps -- less minutes would allow you to increase the video bitrate). So there's a possibility you can fit this project on a DVD5 disc...

Regards,
George

Eric Manacsa · July 24th, 2007, 09:19 AM

I squeezed the content on to a DVD5 and it look good. The only place the compression was obvious was in the menu. The stills and video looked fine. The freezing problem was still occurring between chapters like the first few seconds of random chapters. The freezing did not occur deep into the chapter.

I'm redoing the files in MPEG2 before going into DVDA. Hope it works out.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Wing

How long is the total duration of all the video clips combined (I'm thinking less than ~125 minutes -- which means you can encode using ~4500kbps -- less minutes would allow you to increase the video bitrate). So there's a possibility you can fit this project on a DVD5 disc...

Regards,
George

Eric Manacsa · August 21st, 2007, 09:53 AM

Hello,

I recompiled all the video into MPEG in Vegas and I also used bit rate calculators. It still ended up using a DL even after though calculation was for DVD5.

I watched them on my LG DVD player and I had no problem. She told me everyone that watches the DVD have problems either on their home players or computer. (problem being that it freezes 10+ times during playback)

I need to correct myself. I'm using Maxell DL +R DVDs....is this the problem?

I'm going to try and get -R from another brand. I'm also going to look for the oldest DVD player in the family and test it on that.

I know this is a rookie problem.....continued help is appreciated.

Don Bloom · August 21st, 2007, 10:06 AM

Well, it would seem to make sense that if they are having a problem playing the disc it could be 1) the brand of media and 2) the disc being +R.
I have never used +Rs but have known guys that have and they seem to have had more troubles with those than with -Rs. Although most recent players say they'll play anything -Rs seem to be the preferred type.
I have not used Maxell either but I can only say that I have used Verbatim and now TYs (I love the glossy watershield surface) and routinely do 120 to 130 minute projects and have never had a client complain that they can't play the disc.
Try a different media in -R and I have a feeling your problem will be solved.
Don

Noa Put · August 21st, 2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Manacsa

I know this is a rookie problem

Not really, this can happen to anyone. I f.i. had a similiar problem some months ago, also by using several seperate avi's which all were rendered to mpeg and joined together in adobe encore 1.5. I used philips dvd+r's and also never had a problem with them. Then I had 3 clients in a row complaining with playback issues like stutters or they were trown back to the main menu during playback.
With the first client I manage to solve the problem using another brand of dvd (verbatim) Later I discover the whole batch of dvd (a pack of 50 philips dvd+r) which I had used before suffered the same problem, you could see very small spots on the burnlayer which got smeared out more after I burned the dvd.
The second client had the same problem and using newly purchased verbatims didn't help either, I rendered all the seperate avi's to one big mpeg making the markers in encore and that solved the problem. it seemed that their player had a problem when the playback of one mpeg was done and before it had to jump to the next mpeg file it jumped back to the main menu.
For the third client above solutions didn't work either and then I bought a new dvd burner and since then all my dvd's come out fine.

I really got stressed during that period because it happend in the middel of a wedding season, strangest thing was that the dvd's which refused to play at the client all played fine on 4 different brand of dvd players I tried them on, with the only exception of those 50 philips dvd+r's which caused problems as well on my players. My best guess was that my dvd burner which was a philips and 2 years old could cause the problem. Also the clients with the problems all had philips dvd players.

I think it allways is difficult to determine were exactly the problem is, especially older players have problems with too high bitrates but as I found out it can have different reasons.

Eric Manacsa · August 21st, 2007, 11:02 AM

Thanks for the quick replies. I'll look for Verbatim...that was always my favorite CDR brand. My burning is a new LG eSATA burner.

I hope I don't have to recompile the videos into one file. I don't know if my computer can even handle that. Hmmmm.....I better make sure I test this thing on a real old player.

Thanks again.

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 3rd, 2007, 10:40 AM

Going to buy certain brand of media doesn't mean you buy good media. Because of fierce competition even high rated brand names are using OEM media with their brand printed on it. No it is no fake - just lower quality usually Taiwan made.
Take care when you buy your media and check if it is made in Japan. TDK media made in Japan is Tayo Yuden, Maxell is Maxell, Verbatim is MCC (Mitsubishi chemical) - all of them are good media.
And one more thing - burn at one speed lower than your burner or media would allow (e.g. burn 16x media at 8x)
Also I always check with Nero CD Speed (http://www.cdspeed2000.com/) - very nice and simple software to check various parameters of your drive and media. I'm doing Scan disc and sometimes Disc quality test (if suspicious). Scan disc at 4x or 8x speed would give you idea if the disc is readable at all. Disc quality would show the error rate - if there are any abnormal peaks much higher than the average level you might have disc not playable in many players.

Noa Put · September 3rd, 2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogdan Vaglarov

And one more thing - burn at one speed lower than your burner or media would allow (e.g. burn 16x media at 8x)

A recent test I read with different brands dvd burners with different types of media also came to the same conclusion, higher burning speeds will result in more burningerrors, regardless which brand you used. They even suggested not to go beyond 8 speed for reliable buring results.

Emre Safak · September 3rd, 2007, 02:48 PM

I bet your maximum bit rate is too high, causing the DVD players to lose track.

July 23rd, 2007, 10:52 AM	#1
Eric Manacsa Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 36	Sony DVDA I gave my client 3 DVDs and she reponded via email: "Each copy freezes at various points. I have played them all on three different DVD players and have encountered the same problem. Sometimes the DVD continues to move forward after several seconds of being frozen, but the last time it would not go forward but simply went back to the menu." I've asked her to send me more details like time and chapters on when this is happening. I'm making AVIs in Vegas 7e. I'm making the DVDs in DVD Architech. My burner is a SATA DVD burner...I forgot the brand. I'm using Verbatim DL DVDs. I threw in abount 7 different AVIs ranging from 5 to 20 minutes in length. Is it possible that the freezing occurs when one file ends and looks for the next files to play? Any advice would be appreciated. I would like to correct this right a way. __________________ 3 Canon Cameras and Sony Vegas

July 23rd, 2007, 10:55 AM	#2
Eric Manacsa Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 36	Also, the AVIs are huge and I rely on DVDA to optimize the files to make them fit on the DVD DL. Does this lead to problems? __________________ 3 Canon Cameras and Sony Vegas

August 21st, 2007, 09:53 AM	#9
Eric Manacsa Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 36	Problems persist Hello, I recompiled all the video into MPEG in Vegas and I also used bit rate calculators. It still ended up using a DL even after though calculation was for DVD5. I watched them on my LG DVD player and I had no problem. She told me everyone that watches the DVD have problems either on their home players or computer. (problem being that it freezes 10+ times during playback) I need to correct myself. I'm using Maxell DL +R DVDs....is this the problem? I'm going to try and get -R from another brand. I'm also going to look for the oldest DVD player in the family and test it on that. I know this is a rookie problem.....continued help is appreciated. __________________ 3 Canon Cameras and Sony Vegas

August 21st, 2007, 11:02 AM	#12
Eric Manacsa Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 36	Thanks for the quick replies. I'll look for Verbatim...that was always my favorite CDR brand. My burning is a new LG eSATA burner. I hope I don't have to recompile the videos into one file. I don't know if my computer can even handle that. Hmmmm.....I better make sure I test this thing on a real old player. Thanks again. __________________ 3 Canon Cameras and Sony Vegas

July 23rd, 2007, 11:41 AM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	why not render to mpeg and ac3 audio in vegas. That way you can set the bitrate to just what you need. There are many free bitrate calulaters on the web but remember to allow some room for menus. Anytime I've had DVDA optimize the AVIs I seem to run into some sort of goofiness with it so I always render in Vegas. Do the audio in AC3 and that will save lots of room so you can use a higher bitrate than if the audio is PCM. HTHs Don

July 23rd, 2007, 02:34 PM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I wouldn't go higher at all. Most DVD players would probably choke on it. Even in DVDA the default can be and should be changed and set for the size of the project. That's why I prefer to render in Vegas and set the bitrate to what I know it should be according to the chart or calculator I use for the size of the project. In Vegas you set the parameters you want and need for the project when you go to render to MPEG2 in the FILE>RENDER AS menu -- goto CUSTOM>VIDEO and set the AVERAGE rateto what it should be for the job. I never set the MAX rate to anything over 8 and I set the MIN to 2. The reader of the player most often just won't see the information of the disc at a rate higher than 8 and honestly I really can't see a reason for going over that anyway. Even a rate of 6 or so produces a fine image-I've done some long form stuff where I've had to go to 4.2 to 4.6 and still had a decent enough image but I prefer to stay above that when possible. Edward Troxel has lots of info about bitrates and has a chart to determine the proper rate in one of his newsletters. Find a post by Edward and click on the link in his signature to get to the stuff. HTHs Don

July 23rd, 2007, 03:31 PM	#7
George Wing Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 40	How long is the total duration of all the video clips combined (I'm thinking less than ~125 minutes -- which means you can encode using ~4500kbps -- less minutes would allow you to increase the video bitrate). So there's a possibility you can fit this project on a DVD5 disc... Regards, George

August 21st, 2007, 10:06 AM	#10
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Well, it would seem to make sense that if they are having a problem playing the disc it could be 1) the brand of media and 2) the disc being +R. I have never used +Rs but have known guys that have and they seem to have had more troubles with those than with -Rs. Although most recent players say they'll play anything -Rs seem to be the preferred type. I have not used Maxell either but I can only say that I have used Verbatim and now TYs (I love the glossy watershield surface) and routinely do 120 to 130 minute projects and have never had a client complain that they can't play the disc. Try a different media in -R and I have a feeling your problem will be solved. Don

September 3rd, 2007, 10:40 AM	#13
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Going to buy certain brand of media doesn't mean you buy good media. Because of fierce competition even high rated brand names are using OEM media with their brand printed on it. No it is no fake - just lower quality usually Taiwan made. Take care when you buy your media and check if it is made in Japan. TDK media made in Japan is Tayo Yuden, Maxell is Maxell, Verbatim is MCC (Mitsubishi chemical) - all of them are good media. And one more thing - burn at one speed lower than your burner or media would allow (e.g. burn 16x media at 8x) Also I always check with Nero CD Speed (http://www.cdspeed2000.com/) - very nice and simple software to check various parameters of your drive and media. I'm doing Scan disc and sometimes Disc quality test (if suspicious). Scan disc at 4x or 8x speed would give you idea if the disc is readable at all. Disc quality would show the error rate - if there are any abnormal peaks much higher than the average level you might have disc not playable in many players.

September 3rd, 2007, 02:48 PM	#15
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	I bet your maximum bit rate is too high, causing the DVD players to lose track.