DVD Question at DVinfo.net

Garret Ambrosio · April 10th, 2003, 07:36 PM

Those of you who are event videographers, weddings, etc. Do you burn to DVD-R? If so how do you guys handle the possible compatibility issues with the client's set top DVD players. I hear Pioneer and their minions state that the compatibility of DVD-R is more compatible with more set tops. But on the other Hand Ricoh and their followers adore DVD+R. I know that there is little difference in quality, but which one is "truly" more compatible with set tops and how do you make sure that your production will be useful to the client.

My other question is what is the difference between DVD-R general purpose and authoring or if different from authoring, video use. Which has been more compatible, reliable and which is of better quality. I've heard that if burning video one should use the for video use only or the authoring DVD, then I've been told and from my experience albeit I haven't burned many DVD's, there is no real difference between the types.

Jeff Donald · April 10th, 2003, 08:09 PM

This DVD FAQ should be helpful. Also this topic was discussed in the past week or so. Do a search and you'll find several discussions. DVD-R is the most compatible format. It has been around longer than DVD+R. I have several clients that have older DVD players and they don't even recognize the newer DVD+R format. Authoring DVD's require a special burner (read much more expensive) and special media (authoring DVD's).

Charles Hull · April 11th, 2003, 08:14 AM

This link may also help if you want to check compatibility.
http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com

The most compatible format is 3.95(A). The capacity of these discs, however, is much less than the 4.7(A) or 4.7(G). This means that you will have to encode at much lower rates (higher compression). 120 minutes of video on a 3.95(A) disc is roughly equivalent to 143 minutes on a 4.7(A) or 4.7(G) disc.

The Pioneer S201 (needed to burn authoring media, and, as Jeff says, expensive) has a smaller laser, burns at 1X only, and uses only Authoring (more costly) media. The compatibility has to do with disc speed (playback rpm) and track width.

Taking all of that into consideration, I use 4.7(G) far more than 3.95(A). Right now I burn approximately 2400 discs a year, and have had only 4 returned over the past year (these were re-encoded for 3.95(A) for older DVD players).

Charles

Garret Ambrosio · April 11th, 2003, 11:13 AM

Thanks guys, So the authoring media will not work on my Sony DRU500a? I know getting DVD's stamped especially if they are only a few copies is unforgivingly expensive. Are the DVD's burned on stand-alone appliance DVD burner's like Pioneer's, are these more compatible than the DVD burners in PC's?

Charles Hull · April 11th, 2003, 11:59 AM

<<Thanks guys, So the authoring media will not work on my Sony DRU500a>>

Apparently that's just capable of writing general media.

<<Are the DVD's burned on stand-alone appliance DVD burner's like Pioneer's, are these more compatible than the DVD burners in PC's>>

They are basically the same burners, the software and firmware is what varies

Rob Lohman · April 23rd, 2003, 07:09 AM

Consumer burners can probably burn authoring media just fine,
but it will not be of any use whatsoever. Because those burners
CANNOT write the special stuff they use it for. What is this stuff?
Well primarely it is encryption. On most movie discs the disc
themselves are protected in two ways:

1. region protection (this is done through a setting in the MPEG2 files)
2. encryption (the sectors on the DISC are (partially) encrypted)

You could make a consumer disc region protected with the right
tools but you can't use the encryption because it uses special
media and a special burner (besides other (software) parts you
would need).

If you want encryption (which I cannot understand why because
it is already 100% broken) you must have your discs authored
and pressed/burned professionaly.

Will Fastie · April 23rd, 2003, 07:42 AM

Garrett:

I have a Sony DRU120A and my brother has the 500A. In our experience to date, the biggest factor in DVD-Video player compatibility is not + vs. - but rather the brand of the media.

For example, burning exactly the same movie to two different brands of DVD+R media resulted in one DVD that would not play in any of my players and one DVD that played in all of them. In other words, the player can handle the +R format but not the particular brand.

Determining brand can be tricky. See http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdmedia for information on media and the DVDInfo program, which allows you to view the media ID code for DVD discs. I say tricky because some DVDs I bought in Sony wrappers had Ricoh media codes, meaning they were actually manufactured by Ricoh. I've used Sony, Sony/Ricoh, Verbatim, Memorex, and Fujifilm +R and +RW discs. All have worked but the best results have come from discs with the Sony or Ricoh media IDs. My brother has been using cheap DVD-R discs, Ritek I think, and has not reported any player problems.

As for using a replication service, short runs are becoming much more affordable. If you're talking about quantities like 10, then burning them yourself is cheaper. But even at 100 copies, replication can be reasonably priced, especially when viewed in light of an entire package including Amaray case, outside insert, and disc printing.

Will

Keith Luken · April 23rd, 2003, 10:49 AM

Charles,

You say you burn 2400 discs a year, what burner are you using and what type/brand of media are you have such goo luck with?

Thanks!

Gints Klimanis · July 24th, 2003, 06:42 PM

I haven't burned 1000's of disks, but I'm closing in on 200.

I use a Pioneer A04 with TDK 2x DVD-R, Maxell 1x DVD-RW, and lately, Ritek silvertop 4x DVD-R. I use Pinnacle Studio 8.5.21 for basic video capture, editing and burning. I also use Nero for DVD duplication of my master copies. I've only made two coasters of TDK DVD-Rs, but that was because I started the buring process within 10 seconds of inserting the disk. Now, I wait 30 seconds or so after inserting the media before starting
any burning.

Gints Klimanis · July 24th, 2003, 06:44 PM

More ...

My next DVD burner should do 6x-8x DVD-R. I'm concerned that 8x burning will be limited by my computer's sustained disk bandwidth more than the DVD burning rate.

Since my DVDs are usually only 25-35 minutes, I'm not really limited by total burn time. However, faster DVD-RW would be more useful. Apparently, DVDs require a minimum amount of data
and thus set the minimum DVD-RW burn time to somewhere around 15-20 minutes. So, it's a pain to make short experimentation DVDs.

Gints Klimanis · July 24th, 2003, 06:46 PM

"My brother has been using cheap DVD-R discs, Ritek I think, and has not reported any player problems."

I've distributed my DVDs to a lot of friends and have not received a single complaint. The Ritek and TDK DVD-Rs also play on XBox and Sony Playstation 2.

April 10th, 2003, 07:36 PM	#1
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	DVD Question Those of you who are event videographers, weddings, etc. Do you burn to DVD-R? If so how do you guys handle the possible compatibility issues with the client's set top DVD players. I hear Pioneer and their minions state that the compatibility of DVD-R is more compatible with more set tops. But on the other Hand Ricoh and their followers adore DVD+R. I know that there is little difference in quality, but which one is "truly" more compatible with set tops and how do you make sure that your production will be useful to the client. My other question is what is the difference between DVD-R general purpose and authoring or if different from authoring, video use. Which has been more compatible, reliable and which is of better quality. I've heard that if burning video one should use the for video use only or the authoring DVD, then I've been told and from my experience albeit I haven't burned many DVD's, there is no real difference between the types. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 10th, 2003, 08:09 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	This DVD FAQ should be helpful. Also this topic was discussed in the past week or so. Do a search and you'll find several discussions. DVD-R is the most compatible format. It has been around longer than DVD+R. I have several clients that have older DVD players and they don't even recognize the newer DVD+R format. Authoring DVD's require a special burner (read much more expensive) and special media (authoring DVD's). __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 11th, 2003, 11:13 AM	#4
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Thanks guys, So the authoring media will not work on my Sony DRU500a? I know getting DVD's stamped especially if they are only a few copies is unforgivingly expensive. Are the DVD's burned on stand-alone appliance DVD burner's like Pioneer's, are these more compatible than the DVD burners in PC's? __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 23rd, 2003, 07:09 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Consumer burners can probably burn authoring media just fine, but it will not be of any use whatsoever. Because those burners CANNOT write the special stuff they use it for. What is this stuff? Well primarely it is encryption. On most movie discs the disc themselves are protected in two ways: 1. region protection (this is done through a setting in the MPEG2 files) 2. encryption (the sectors on the DISC are (partially) encrypted) You could make a consumer disc region protected with the right tools but you can't use the encryption because it uses special media and a special burner (besides other (software) parts you would need). If you want encryption (which I cannot understand why because it is already 100% broken) you must have your discs authored and pressed/burned professionaly. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 11th, 2003, 08:14 AM	#3
Charles Hull New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, RI Posts: 5	This link may also help if you want to check compatibility. http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com The most compatible format is 3.95(A). The capacity of these discs, however, is much less than the 4.7(A) or 4.7(G). This means that you will have to encode at much lower rates (higher compression). 120 minutes of video on a 3.95(A) disc is roughly equivalent to 143 minutes on a 4.7(A) or 4.7(G) disc. The Pioneer S201 (needed to burn authoring media, and, as Jeff says, expensive) has a smaller laser, burns at 1X only, and uses only Authoring (more costly) media. The compatibility has to do with disc speed (playback rpm) and track width. Taking all of that into consideration, I use 4.7(G) far more than 3.95(A). Right now I burn approximately 2400 discs a year, and have had only 4 returned over the past year (these were re-encoded for 3.95(A) for older DVD players). Charles

April 11th, 2003, 11:59 AM	#5
Charles Hull New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, RI Posts: 5	<<Thanks guys, So the authoring media will not work on my Sony DRU500a>> Apparently that's just capable of writing general media. <<Are the DVD's burned on stand-alone appliance DVD burner's like Pioneer's, are these more compatible than the DVD burners in PC's>> They are basically the same burners, the software and firmware is what varies

April 23rd, 2003, 07:42 AM	#7
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Garrett: I have a Sony DRU120A and my brother has the 500A. In our experience to date, the biggest factor in DVD-Video player compatibility is not + vs. - but rather the brand of the media. For example, burning exactly the same movie to two different brands of DVD+R media resulted in one DVD that would not play in any of my players and one DVD that played in all of them. In other words, the player can handle the +R format but not the particular brand. Determining brand can be tricky. See http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdmedia for information on media and the DVDInfo program, which allows you to view the media ID code for DVD discs. I say tricky because some DVDs I bought in Sony wrappers had Ricoh media codes, meaning they were actually manufactured by Ricoh. I've used Sony, Sony/Ricoh, Verbatim, Memorex, and Fujifilm +R and +RW discs. All have worked but the best results have come from discs with the Sony or Ricoh media IDs. My brother has been using cheap DVD-R discs, Ritek I think, and has not reported any player problems. As for using a replication service, short runs are becoming much more affordable. If you're talking about quantities like 10, then burning them yourself is cheaper. But even at 100 copies, replication can be reasonably priced, especially when viewed in light of an entire package including Amaray case, outside insert, and disc printing. Will

April 23rd, 2003, 10:49 AM	#8
Keith Luken Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 200	Charles, You say you burn 2400 discs a year, what burner are you using and what type/brand of media are you have such goo luck with? Thanks!

July 24th, 2003, 06:42 PM	#9
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I haven't burned 1000's of disks, but I'm closing in on 200. I use a Pioneer A04 with TDK 2x DVD-R, Maxell 1x DVD-RW, and lately, Ritek silvertop 4x DVD-R. I use Pinnacle Studio 8.5.21 for basic video capture, editing and burning. I also use Nero for DVD duplication of my master copies. I've only made two coasters of TDK DVD-Rs, but that was because I started the buring process within 10 seconds of inserting the disk. Now, I wait 30 seconds or so after inserting the media before starting any burning.

July 24th, 2003, 06:44 PM	#10
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	More ... My next DVD burner should do 6x-8x DVD-R. I'm concerned that 8x burning will be limited by my computer's sustained disk bandwidth more than the DVD burning rate. Since my DVDs are usually only 25-35 minutes, I'm not really limited by total burn time. However, faster DVD-RW would be more useful. Apparently, DVDs require a minimum amount of data and thus set the minimum DVD-RW burn time to somewhere around 15-20 minutes. So, it's a pain to make short experimentation DVDs.

July 24th, 2003, 06:46 PM	#11
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	"My brother has been using cheap DVD-R discs, Ritek I think, and has not reported any player problems." I've distributed my DVDs to a lot of friends and have not received a single complaint. The Ritek and TDK DVD-Rs also play on XBox and Sony Playstation 2.