Size of menus on DVD at DVinfo.net

Steve Burke · January 31st, 2007, 05:45 PM

My current project has 30 chapters. I have 1 main menu and 6 sub-menus, each with 5 motion menus. Now my question.....

When I write the test DVD with only the video file, and have the setting to bit rate to fit the full DVD, I have a video with a certain quality.....

Now when I add the motion menus ( with a loop of 20secs each, to avoid having the full 1hr production on 1 motion menu ) how do I know how much disk space these are taking up? I need to know this so that I can calculate the loss of quality in the actual main video file.

Eg 4GB DVD, full video file written across this at x Mbit/sec.

If menus and nav take up 2GB ( gross overkill ), then the video only has 2GB space, hence Encore will half it's bit rate to fit it on......

Can you see where I am coming from?

How do I know how much space the menus and nav is taking up?

Thanks.

Steve

Jason Robinson · January 31st, 2007, 08:50 PM

I know that DVDA will tell you final render size and then flag some MPG files that will need to be re-compressed. But that is DVDA and I'm not sure about encore. There may be some generic bitrate calculators that can give you X (# of seconds of motion menus rendered as a MPG file) x Y (bitrate of menu MPG file) + A (file size of rendered movie MPG file) = TOTAL.

jason

Steve Burke · February 1st, 2007, 06:32 AM

Thanks, Jason. I will investigate further.

Cheers

Steve

Dave Stern · February 1st, 2007, 07:15 AM

you can use the following bit rate calc:

http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm

use advanced mode (press the button), and then in the ISO field, you can put in different amounts of space your menus might use (I would add it to the 25 megs that show as the default). It will then show you the bitrate remaining for your main title based on its length.

not sure if your authoring sw will show you how much it's using for titles, but I know in DVDA for example, you can specify the bitrate for encoded items such as menus, etc.

also, if you are buring these yourself, you may not want to fill your disk to the brim, e.g. leave a little space left over, as disks burned all the way to the edge sometimes have trouble playing (I'm sure there will be disputes to that, but just fyi).

also, when you encode your menus, the size will be proportional to the length of the video and the bitrate, and won't be a function of how many motion chapter marks you have on there (b/c each menu will be encoded to be one single video)...it'll take longer to encode if you have a lot of chapters on the menu, but the resulting file size should only be a function of the length (time) and bitrate.

hope this helps.

Paul Wags · February 1st, 2007, 08:01 AM

I know that if you use DVDLAB Pro it can tell you how much each thing is using as you build it and if you are over.

You can also custom size each motion menu you do in quality and time.

Dave Stern · February 1st, 2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wags

I know that if you use DVDLAB Pro it can tell you how much each thing is using as you build it and if you are over.

You can also custom size each motion menu you do in quality and time.

it's a great tool... a bit of a learning curve, but a really great tool

Steve Burke · February 1st, 2007, 05:09 PM

Many thanks for your feedback, Gents.

What I have found is that if I transcode the assets BEFORE I build the DVD ( Before I was running both in 'series' and didnt have any visibility ), what I find is that the transcoded assets display on a circular DVD image, showing what space the DVD video/audio is taking up, and then as you build each menu, it fits into the remaining space. The build then is fairly quick to burn as most of the transcoding is done beforehand. I set the video to 7Mb/sec, VBR, 2 Pass, with an aim of 1Mb/sec min, 7Mb/sec target, max 9Mb/sec. The motion menus are then transcoded at the same rate as the video for consistancy. Hope this conclusion helps others reading this thread, with a similar issue in Encore.

Cheers for the feedback.

Steve

January 31st, 2007, 05:45 PM	#1
Steve Burke Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 63	Size of menus on DVD My current project has 30 chapters. I have 1 main menu and 6 sub-menus, each with 5 motion menus. Now my question..... When I write the test DVD with only the video file, and have the setting to bit rate to fit the full DVD, I have a video with a certain quality..... Now when I add the motion menus ( with a loop of 20secs each, to avoid having the full 1hr production on 1 motion menu ) how do I know how much disk space these are taking up? I need to know this so that I can calculate the loss of quality in the actual main video file. Eg 4GB DVD, full video file written across this at x Mbit/sec. If menus and nav take up 2GB ( gross overkill ), then the video only has 2GB space, hence Encore will half it's bit rate to fit it on...... Can you see where I am coming from? How do I know how much space the menus and nav is taking up? Thanks. Steve __________________ Canon XL2, Photoshop CS2, Premiere Pro 2.0, After Effects 7.0, Encore DVD 2.0, Audition 2.0. 2x PCs both Duo-Core 3GHz, both 1GB RAM, both dual monitor. 1x Laptop, single core, 3GHz, 1GB RAM.

January 31st, 2007, 08:50 PM	#2
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	Using DVDArchitect I know that DVDA will tell you final render size and then flag some MPG files that will need to be re-compressed. But that is DVDA and I'm not sure about encore. There may be some generic bitrate calculators that can give you X (# of seconds of motion menus rendered as a MPG file) x Y (bitrate of menu MPG file) + A (file size of rendered movie MPG file) = TOTAL. jason

February 1st, 2007, 06:32 AM	#3
Steve Burke Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 63	Thanks, Jason. I will investigate further. Cheers Steve __________________ Canon XL2, Photoshop CS2, Premiere Pro 2.0, After Effects 7.0, Encore DVD 2.0, Audition 2.0. 2x PCs both Duo-Core 3GHz, both 1GB RAM, both dual monitor. 1x Laptop, single core, 3GHz, 1GB RAM.

February 1st, 2007, 05:09 PM	#7
Steve Burke Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 63	Many thanks for your feedback, Gents. What I have found is that if I transcode the assets BEFORE I build the DVD ( Before I was running both in 'series' and didnt have any visibility ), what I find is that the transcoded assets display on a circular DVD image, showing what space the DVD video/audio is taking up, and then as you build each menu, it fits into the remaining space. The build then is fairly quick to burn as most of the transcoding is done beforehand. I set the video to 7Mb/sec, VBR, 2 Pass, with an aim of 1Mb/sec min, 7Mb/sec target, max 9Mb/sec. The motion menus are then transcoded at the same rate as the video for consistancy. Hope this conclusion helps others reading this thread, with a similar issue in Encore. Cheers for the feedback. Steve __________________ Canon XL2, Photoshop CS2, Premiere Pro 2.0, After Effects 7.0, Encore DVD 2.0, Audition 2.0. 2x PCs both Duo-Core 3GHz, both 1GB RAM, both dual monitor. 1x Laptop, single core, 3GHz, 1GB RAM.

February 1st, 2007, 07:15 AM	#4
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	you can use the following bit rate calc: http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm use advanced mode (press the button), and then in the ISO field, you can put in different amounts of space your menus might use (I would add it to the 25 megs that show as the default). It will then show you the bitrate remaining for your main title based on its length. not sure if your authoring sw will show you how much it's using for titles, but I know in DVDA for example, you can specify the bitrate for encoded items such as menus, etc. also, if you are buring these yourself, you may not want to fill your disk to the brim, e.g. leave a little space left over, as disks burned all the way to the edge sometimes have trouble playing (I'm sure there will be disputes to that, but just fyi). also, when you encode your menus, the size will be proportional to the length of the video and the bitrate, and won't be a function of how many motion chapter marks you have on there (b/c each menu will be encoded to be one single video)...it'll take longer to encode if you have a lot of chapters on the menu, but the resulting file size should only be a function of the length (time) and bitrate. hope this helps.

February 1st, 2007, 08:01 AM	#5
Paul Wags Ruler of the DownUnder UnderWorld Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cairns- Queensland - Australia Posts: 248	I know that if you use DVDLAB Pro it can tell you how much each thing is using as you build it and if you are over. You can also custom size each motion menu you do in quality and time.