My DVD´s renders brighter output at DVinfo.net

Kristian Indrehus · November 23rd, 2006, 08:03 PM

I´ve noticed that my DVD´s always comes out a little brighter then the original. Doesn´t matter if the input is DV or 8 bit uncompressed. My burned DVD´s always comes out a little brighter (and duller) then my master file. I´m in PAL land by the way. Hard to say if it´s a gamma thing, less contrast og simply brighter, but I´d like to know if there´s a workaround.

Emre Safak · November 23rd, 2006, 11:29 PM

How are you evaluating the results? You should be using a calibrated TV monitor. Computer monitors have a lower gamma, making things appear darker.

Kristian Indrehus · November 24th, 2006, 02:39 AM

I do simple A/B testing on the computer monitor. QuickTime plays original 8bit uncompressed file, and DVD player plays DVD. DVD output looks brighter, or maybe it´s less contrast, I´m not sure. DVD studio pro is the app. by the way, and SD PAL the format.

Emre Safak · November 24th, 2006, 09:18 AM

The DVD is in a different color space (ITU-R BT.601). Common software DVD players, such as PowerDVD, do not take this into account, so the only way to properly preview your DVDs is, like I said, on a DVD player connected to a calibrated TV monitor. A possible substitute might be to use a video card with an S-video output, connected to a regular TV. PAL or NTSC makes no difference, as far as I know.

Kristian Indrehus · November 24th, 2006, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the input but I'm still unsure. I have seen the DVD on my 16:9 CRT TV-set and it looks too bright and that's why I started the A/B testing in the first place. I'm editing on a HR Trinitron CRT through deck-link. My LCD's are calibrated to the CRT. I put the two sources on one LCD playing in sync, just to establish the differense between the DVD and the original file. The DVD is playing from the internal DVD-player on my Mac G5, and the original file from disk using Quick-time player. Aren't they suppose to match? I really need to be able to trust what I see on my CRT so it's important to me that I find out why my DVD's come out looking different than my master.

Emre Safak · November 24th, 2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Indrehus

The DVD is playing from the internal DVD-player on my Mac G5, and the original file from disk using Quick-time player. Aren't they suppose to match?

You wish! Even a simple image can look different from one application to another, depending on whether or not they are color managed. I do not trust my computer to preview DVDs properly, so I use a real DVD player and TV instead. Maybe you could create a profile for your monitor to compensate for the difference, if you still intend to use your computer's DVD capabilities.

Kristian Indrehus · November 24th, 2006, 01:46 PM

I see. That means my CRT monitor gives me a wrong reference. I will try to calibrate it, so it matches my TV. I guess that's my best reference to how I expect things to look.

Richard Zlamany · November 24th, 2006, 05:49 PM

I think the difference you are noticing is more complicated than the differences between monitors and televisions.

It may have to do with the levels and the difference between DV and the players of DVD.

Or both.

My solution:

1st, color correct the DV footage to look good on the monitor.

2nd, when going from DV to mpeg2 put 2 filters on the conversion. One to lessen the brightness and the other for contrast.

This link explains it:

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-le...g-2-part-1.htm

Kristian Indrehus · November 25th, 2006, 02:37 AM

I read the article. Very interesting. I´m not sure how much of it relates to me since I´m i PAL land, but I recognize the "washed out" look so it could very well be a level problem somewhere in the chain.

1. Original footage is HDV downconverted in my Canon XL-H1 to DV and captured through firewire. (So far so good)

2. I edit in Final Cut watching a Sony 800 lines broadcast monitor hoocked up (component analog) to a deck-link extreme card. Everything in PAL SD format. (Several ways to go wrong here I guess) My deck-link card is set to 0 IRE. Monitor could be badly calibrated, I have made only a few personal adjustments from the factory settings.

3. Sequence is rendered 8bit (for better graphics), using Blackmagic 8bit (2Vuy) Here I just discovered what could be the problem. When I imported my masterfile into FCP to view it through decklink and monitor I discovered that it looked brighter than what´'s on the timeline. When lined up in FCP the two frames look identical on the LCD's but the reimported master looks much brighter on the CRT. I then changed the timeline codec to apple 8bit uncompressed and now they look the same on all monitors.

I will make a new master to see if the DVD's come out right now.
Thanks for all help this far.

November 23rd, 2006, 08:03 PM	#1
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	My DVD´s renders brighter output I´ve noticed that my DVD´s always comes out a little brighter then the original. Doesn´t matter if the input is DV or 8 bit uncompressed. My burned DVD´s always comes out a little brighter (and duller) then my master file. I´m in PAL land by the way. Hard to say if it´s a gamma thing, less contrast og simply brighter, but I´d like to know if there´s a workaround.

November 24th, 2006, 09:18 AM	#4
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	The DVD is in a different color space (ITU-R BT.601). Common software DVD players, such as PowerDVD, do not take this into account, so the only way to properly preview your DVDs is, like I said, on a DVD player connected to a calibrated TV monitor. A possible substitute might be to use a video card with an S-video output, connected to a regular TV. PAL or NTSC makes no difference, as far as I know. Last edited by Emre Safak; November 24th, 2006 at 11:14 AM.

November 23rd, 2006, 11:29 PM	#2
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	How are you evaluating the results? You should be using a calibrated TV monitor. Computer monitors have a lower gamma, making things appear darker.

November 24th, 2006, 02:39 AM	#3
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	I do simple A/B testing on the computer monitor. QuickTime plays original 8bit uncompressed file, and DVD player plays DVD. DVD output looks brighter, or maybe it´s less contrast, I´m not sure. DVD studio pro is the app. by the way, and SD PAL the format.

November 24th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#5
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	Thanks for the input but I'm still unsure. I have seen the DVD on my 16:9 CRT TV-set and it looks too bright and that's why I started the A/B testing in the first place. I'm editing on a HR Trinitron CRT through deck-link. My LCD's are calibrated to the CRT. I put the two sources on one LCD playing in sync, just to establish the differense between the DVD and the original file. The DVD is playing from the internal DVD-player on my Mac G5, and the original file from disk using Quick-time player. Aren't they suppose to match? I really need to be able to trust what I see on my CRT so it's important to me that I find out why my DVD's come out looking different than my master.

November 24th, 2006, 01:46 PM	#7
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	I see. That means my CRT monitor gives me a wrong reference. I will try to calibrate it, so it matches my TV. I guess that's my best reference to how I expect things to look.

November 24th, 2006, 05:49 PM	#8
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I think the difference you are noticing is more complicated than the differences between monitors and televisions. It may have to do with the levels and the difference between DV and the players of DVD. Or both. My solution: 1st, color correct the DV footage to look good on the monitor. 2nd, when going from DV to mpeg2 put 2 filters on the conversion. One to lessen the brightness and the other for contrast. This link explains it: http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-le...g-2-part-1.htm

November 25th, 2006, 02:37 AM	#9
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	I read the article. Very interesting. I´m not sure how much of it relates to me since I´m i PAL land, but I recognize the "washed out" look so it could very well be a level problem somewhere in the chain. 1. Original footage is HDV downconverted in my Canon XL-H1 to DV and captured through firewire. (So far so good) 2. I edit in Final Cut watching a Sony 800 lines broadcast monitor hoocked up (component analog) to a deck-link extreme card. Everything in PAL SD format. (Several ways to go wrong here I guess) My deck-link card is set to 0 IRE. Monitor could be badly calibrated, I have made only a few personal adjustments from the factory settings. 3. Sequence is rendered 8bit (for better graphics), using Blackmagic 8bit (2Vuy) Here I just discovered what could be the problem. When I imported my masterfile into FCP to view it through decklink and monitor I discovered that it looked brighter than what´'s on the timeline. When lined up in FCP the two frames look identical on the LCD's but the reimported master looks much brighter on the CRT. I then changed the timeline codec to apple 8bit uncompressed and now they look the same on all monitors. I will make a new master to see if the DVD's come out right now. Thanks for all help this far.