The Best, Most Cost Effective DVD Labeling Method?

K. Forman · July 13th, 2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Watts

It does do a glossy finish but I'm not sure it's worth the extra cash for that printer versus the R340. Especially since the R340 is 130.00 at Staples right now. Glossy disks won't make you anymore money per project so why spend the extra cash? What ends up happening, is your client opens the disk, takes a look at the label, thinks it's really nice looking, puts it into the player and that's the last time they really consider the quality of the label and whether or not it's glossy probably isn't in their mindset. Now, if you want to offer glossy printing at a premium, then by all means try it. But I'm not sure the recordable/printable media really supports the glossy inks so you might want to check on that.

Just a thought.

Cheers

That's true to an extent. But when you get cheap, and the labeling is coming off their disk, you'll certainly be remembered. Not in a pleasant manner either. A little more effort will reap you bigger rewards down the road.

Greg Watts · July 13th, 2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal Johnson

Greg, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're totally under-estimating the value that a finished product has to a client. I have produced many corporate videos, and we work to try and offer the highest quality product that we can reasonably afford. About 4 years ago we switched from using matte finish labels to glossy labels, and clients reaction was very positive. When finishing off a project that the client is paying $5000 for, it sure doesn't hurt to hand them a professional looking DVD, with case, cover, and a nice glossy label. Most of my clients actually have remarked on the label quality with comments like "wow, that looks great!" or "how did you get such a good print job on the DVD?". They sure do seem to notice. While you might not be saying to the client "you owe me 50 cents more for each disk because of the nice label I put on there", a high quality product is a statement that you're professional. Its like handing someone a business card that you printed off on your computer. It won't make you any more money to get them professionally printed, but it does make an impression. It the little details that count.

I have to say I agree that you want to make sure you're offering a high quality product and my point is that glossy might be shiny but it's not by virtue of the gloss somehow more professional looking. If that were the case, the studios would be doing glossy disks and they're not. I also don't think you can somehow compare the regular inkjet printed disks as being unprofessional like your business card scenario versus the "professional" glossy. I don't buy that argument for one second and neither do my customers. I'm not saying that you shouldn't offer it as an additional option but it certainly doesn't somehow equate to your business card example.

Hand writing your labels would be unprofessional. Using the printable inkjet non-glossy method is professional as is using the glossy.

I would consider the layout and design much more important in conveying professional quality because a crappy design on a shiny, glossy disk is still a crappy design that screams amateur and unprofessional.

Quote:

That's true to an extent. But when you get cheap, and the labeling is coming off their disk, you'll certainly be remembered. Not in a pleasant manner either. A little more effort will reap you bigger rewards down the road.

I think there's some crossed up communication here because I'm not talking about using the stick on labels. I'm simply saying the matte white printable DVD's are more than acceptable. I definitely don't think using the stick on labels is effective for most applications from a professional point of view.

Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers

Cal Johnson · July 13th, 2006, 10:49 PM

Just to clarify, the labels I use are the stick on type. We order them on-line. They come with a warning, and that is, once you start to apply the label, it won't come off. It's quite true, and as the warning says, to get it off you'd damage the disk. We haven't had any reports of labels coming off, and the finish, as I mentioned before, is really slick looking, clients like it a lot.

Keith, I don't think Greg is talking about using labels at all, so the comment about cheap labels coming off should have been directed to me, not him. And as I mentioned above, the labels we use are excellent.

Greg, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't know why you start talking about "crappy designs on shiny labels" and the way you're saying how you would consider the layout and design more important makes it seem as if I'm saying its not. All of our art work is done by a top of the line graphic designer, so I'm not sure what you're on about, this thread was about label quality.
I still stand behind what I said in my earlier post, wether you "buy" it or not. To me, what you're saying is why go the extra mile when you don't have to. I always try to offer the customer the best product I can with their budget. Spending fifty cents more on a disc is worth it, if its going to make the product look that much better. I've seen samples of the Epson printed disk, and I wasn't particulary impressed. I guess it may be personal preference. Its a very different look from the silk screened DVDs that Hollywood puts out. I know that by offering clients a very polished, finished product, I've been able to make money from duplication orders on top of the money made from the production, so it works for me. If you ever get a chance to check out Toshiba's thermal printer, do so. If you don't see the difference in quality between something like that and the Epson, then I think its just to subjective of an issue.
Cheers.

K. Forman · July 13th, 2006, 11:23 PM

Actually, the gloss finish is supposed to help keep the finish from fading, smudging, and to repel moisture. So, if applying the gloss helps prolong the ink, ultimately, it is worth it.

As for your stick on labels, I stopped using those years ago, in favor of a sharpie. They do peel off, especially if it sits in the car for any length of time. The only time they don't seem to want to come off for me, is when I applied it slightly off center. Now, I believe there is a different type of stick on, which is more like a vinyl instead of paper. This might be a different story all together.

Cal Johnson · July 14th, 2006, 09:37 AM

Keith, you can buy stick on labels that won't peel off. We've used them for years, and the labels stay on just fine. If you just by a standard pack at the Office supply store, then you may very well have issues. There are places on-line that offer a little more expensive, high quality gloss labels that wont peel.

K. Forman · July 14th, 2006, 09:48 AM

Cal, as they say in Missouri, Show Me ;) Seriously, I looked for a while, and all I could ever find were the WalMart/Staples/Office Max variety of stick ons. I hated them with a passion! Kind of moot for me to be looking at them now, but I am curious as to what you have.

Cal Johnson · July 14th, 2006, 10:09 AM

I not sure who the company was that we bought our last order from, but this is pretty much the same thing:

http://www.planetlabel.com/catalog/p...2c882017092fab

You're paying 17 cents a label, so you could probably find cheaper, but the price sounds about right for the quality. What we looked for was the description "permanent adhesive". I'll try to find out where we got the last batch from, because they worked very well and we're needing to re-order more anyways. Hope this helps.

Frank Maggi · July 15th, 2006, 07:38 AM

For what it's worth, we use the Primera Pro to burn and print and it does a nice job. We use cheap inkjet writable discs and have had no problems with smearing. However, I haven't done any extensive smudge-testing. FYI.

http://www.primera.com/bravopro_auto...r_pricing.html

Jonathan Nelson · July 15th, 2006, 06:11 PM

Does anyone here have an Epson R800 and like it?

I wouldnt mind getting one of these if it actually does apply some kind of clear coat to the disk to protect it from smudging. I have the epson r300 and I get complaints all the time about the ink smearing. Even though the manual feeding of the discs is a pain, I find the picture quality to be remarkable and I do like the individual inks. I have tried spraying acrylic to the dics but its way too much work and a real mess.

So, does this thing protect the disk or should I just buy a primera accent?

Cal Johnson · July 16th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Ink smudging can be a real problem with some disc printers, but I haven't tried the Epson 800. I went to two different stores, no samples, no way to test the unit other than to buy it, but I would like to know what the quality is like.
I went to NAB in 2005, and checked out a lot of different systems for printing to disc. One was this really silvery kind of finish, full color, but all the colors had a kind of metallic look to them. Just a bit of pressure would pull the ink right off the disc, so I wasn't interested.
Now, for a complete over-kill end-game solution, TEAC offers their "Auto-Publisher System" (burner and printer in one). The quality is the best I've ever seen, even professionally duplicated/silk screened discs don't look any better, and the ink won't smudge at all. Great, but its a $9500 unit, and costs $.50 a disc to print. Probably too much money for most of us, but wouldn't you just love to see that robotic arm working away?

http://www.cdrecordingsoftware.com/DVDPUBLISHER2.html

Glenn Davidson · July 17th, 2006, 12:12 AM

I have an R800 and only use it on photographic paper. We produce thousands of CD-Rs a month and I use a Rimage thermal printer on silver CDs. Before we got the Rimage, I actually had one customer threaten to sue me in small claims court if I did not refund his money because his ink jet printed CD were smearing. Rimage now makes a color printer that is scratch and water proof. I will probably purchase one of these next.

Mike Teutsch · July 17th, 2006, 06:03 AM

We mostly seem to be talking about Epson printers, and I would assume that they would use basically the same inks.

I have the Epson R200, which I like, and I have never had any ink smearing problems. Perhaps what we need to look at are the disks we use. I do use the matte finish. Maybe part of the problem is any gloss finish disks. That does make sense, as they have less for inks to adhere to.

Just a thought.

Mike

Chris Barcellos · July 17th, 2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

We mostly seem to be talking about Epson printers, and I would assume that they would use basically the same inks.

I have the Epson R200, which I like, and I have never had any ink smearing problems. Perhaps what we need to look at are the disks we use. I do use the matte finish. Maybe part of the problem is any gloss finish disks. That does make sense, as they have less for inks to adhere to.

Just a thought.

Mike

I had one sitting on my desk last night when I read that post, and gave it the old spit test, rubbing it with my finger. It was a matte finish with a photo on top-- a FUJI printable disk, printed with the Epson 300. It smeared a bit. So they are not completely water proof.

K. Forman · July 17th, 2006, 10:16 AM

Ink jet ink is really bad when it comes in contact with moisture, and I don't think it matters what type of surface you print on. There are other threads which gloss over using clear paint to seal the disk.

Mike Teutsch · July 17th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I had one sitting on my desk last night when I read that post, and gave it the old spit test, rubbing it with my finger. It was a matte finish with a photo on top-- a FUJI printable disk, printed with the Epson 300. It smeared a bit. So they are not completely water proof.

They will not be completely waterproof. Commercial CD's DVD's are silk screened, which is a totally different process, and involves very different inks, and a drying process.

Personally, unless I have touched mine before they have completely dried, I have never had a problem. Printed a fresh one the other day, and wanted to put it in a sleave right away, so I hit it with the old hair drier and that worked great!

I guess the bottom line is that if you want perfection, you have to pay for it.

Mike

July 13th, 2006, 11:23 PM	#34
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Actually, the gloss finish is supposed to help keep the finish from fading, smudging, and to repel moisture. So, if applying the gloss helps prolong the ink, ultimately, it is worth it. As for your stick on labels, I stopped using those years ago, in favor of a sharpie. They do peel off, especially if it sits in the car for any length of time. The only time they don't seem to want to come off for me, is when I applied it slightly off center. Now, I believe there is a different type of stick on, which is more like a vinyl instead of paper. This might be a different story all together. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 14th, 2006, 09:48 AM	#36
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Cal, as they say in Missouri, Show Me ;) Seriously, I looked for a while, and all I could ever find were the WalMart/Staples/Office Max variety of stick ons. I hated them with a passion! Kind of moot for me to be looking at them now, but I am curious as to what you have. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 15th, 2006, 07:38 AM	#38
Frank Maggi New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Valley Center, CA Posts: 14	We use Primera Pro For what it's worth, we use the Primera Pro to burn and print and it does a nice job. We use cheap inkjet writable discs and have had no problems with smearing. However, I haven't done any extensive smudge-testing. FYI. http://www.primera.com/bravopro_auto...r_pricing.html

July 17th, 2006, 06:03 AM	#42
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	We mostly seem to be talking about Epson printers, and I would assume that they would use basically the same inks. I have the Epson R200, which I like, and I have never had any ink smearing problems. Perhaps what we need to look at are the disks we use. I do use the matte finish. Maybe part of the problem is any gloss finish disks. That does make sense, as they have less for inks to adhere to. Just a thought. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

July 17th, 2006, 10:16 AM	#44
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Ink jet ink is really bad when it comes in contact with moisture, and I don't think it matters what type of surface you print on. There are other threads which gloss over using clear paint to seal the disk. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 13th, 2006, 10:49 PM	#33
Cal Johnson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 180	Just to clarify, the labels I use are the stick on type. We order them on-line. They come with a warning, and that is, once you start to apply the label, it won't come off. It's quite true, and as the warning says, to get it off you'd damage the disk. We haven't had any reports of labels coming off, and the finish, as I mentioned before, is really slick looking, clients like it a lot. Keith, I don't think Greg is talking about using labels at all, so the comment about cheap labels coming off should have been directed to me, not him. And as I mentioned above, the labels we use are excellent. Greg, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't know why you start talking about "crappy designs on shiny labels" and the way you're saying how you would consider the layout and design more important makes it seem as if I'm saying its not. All of our art work is done by a top of the line graphic designer, so I'm not sure what you're on about, this thread was about label quality. I still stand behind what I said in my earlier post, wether you "buy" it or not. To me, what you're saying is why go the extra mile when you don't have to. I always try to offer the customer the best product I can with their budget. Spending fifty cents more on a disc is worth it, if its going to make the product look that much better. I've seen samples of the Epson printed disk, and I wasn't particulary impressed. I guess it may be personal preference. Its a very different look from the silk screened DVDs that Hollywood puts out. I know that by offering clients a very polished, finished product, I've been able to make money from duplication orders on top of the money made from the production, so it works for me. If you ever get a chance to check out Toshiba's thermal printer, do so. If you don't see the difference in quality between something like that and the Epson, then I think its just to subjective of an issue. Cheers.

July 14th, 2006, 09:37 AM	#35
Cal Johnson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 180	Keith, you can buy stick on labels that won't peel off. We've used them for years, and the labels stay on just fine. If you just by a standard pack at the Office supply store, then you may very well have issues. There are places on-line that offer a little more expensive, high quality gloss labels that wont peel.

July 14th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#37
Cal Johnson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 180	I not sure who the company was that we bought our last order from, but this is pretty much the same thing: http://www.planetlabel.com/catalog/p...2c882017092fab You're paying 17 cents a label, so you could probably find cheaper, but the price sounds about right for the quality. What we looked for was the description "permanent adhesive". I'll try to find out where we got the last batch from, because they worked very well and we're needing to re-order more anyways. Hope this helps.

July 15th, 2006, 06:11 PM	#39
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	Does anyone here have an Epson R800 and like it? I wouldnt mind getting one of these if it actually does apply some kind of clear coat to the disk to protect it from smudging. I have the epson r300 and I get complaints all the time about the ink smearing. Even though the manual feeding of the discs is a pain, I find the picture quality to be remarkable and I do like the individual inks. I have tried spraying acrylic to the dics but its way too much work and a real mess. So, does this thing protect the disk or should I just buy a primera accent?

July 16th, 2006, 11:11 PM	#40
Cal Johnson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 180	Ink smudging can be a real problem with some disc printers, but I haven't tried the Epson 800. I went to two different stores, no samples, no way to test the unit other than to buy it, but I would like to know what the quality is like. I went to NAB in 2005, and checked out a lot of different systems for printing to disc. One was this really silvery kind of finish, full color, but all the colors had a kind of metallic look to them. Just a bit of pressure would pull the ink right off the disc, so I wasn't interested. Now, for a complete over-kill end-game solution, TEAC offers their "Auto-Publisher System" (burner and printer in one). The quality is the best I've ever seen, even professionally duplicated/silk screened discs don't look any better, and the ink won't smudge at all. Great, but its a $9500 unit, and costs $.50 a disc to print. Probably too much money for most of us, but wouldn't you just love to see that robotic arm working away? http://www.cdrecordingsoftware.com/DVDPUBLISHER2.html

July 17th, 2006, 12:12 AM	#41
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	I have an R800 and only use it on photographic paper. We produce thousands of CD-Rs a month and I use a Rimage thermal printer on silver CDs. Before we got the Rimage, I actually had one customer threaten to sue me in small claims court if I did not refund his money because his ink jet printed CD were smearing. Rimage now makes a color printer that is scratch and water proof. I will probably purchase one of these next.