Almost 2 hours of video on DVD at DVinfo.net

Chad Martin · June 20th, 2006, 06:33 PM

Hoping this is the best forum for my question...I'm attempting to get an 1hr41m of video edited in Sony Vegas Platinum on to a DVD, but I'm running into file size issues. I've exported from Vegas using the DVD NTSC .mpeg2 template and the file size for the video/audio stream ends up at 4.7gb (which seems good to me). But when I import the mpeg file into DVD Architect 3.0, DVD architect seems to separate the audio from the video. When it does this, it adds the audio portion of the file size back into the 4.7gb, and ends up with 6.2gb.

Re-compressing in Architect does not seem to be an option because Architect throws an error that the bitrate would be too low.

So, I'm looking for some advice on how to approach getting my 1hr41m footage onto 1 DVD, and I'd be interested to hear any explanations on why DVD Architect is splitting the audio from the video and adding the file sizes together. All advice is much appreciated!

Christopher Lefchik · June 20th, 2006, 07:22 PM

Normally one exports separate video and audio streams for authoring a DVD. However, it sounds like you exported a muxed (video and audio combined) MPEG-2 file. While I'm not familiar with Vegas, there should be a template that will let you export unmuxed (video and audio separate) files. I'm not sure where the Dolby Digital plugin that comes with the Vegas+DVD suite comes into play. If you have the option to use Dolby Digital (AC3) compression when exporting the audio from Vegas, use it. Otherwise choose uncompressed PCM .wav audio so that DVD Architect can then apply the Dolby Digital compression.

Chad Martin · June 20th, 2006, 08:25 PM

Hi Chris. Thanks for the reply. I had actually attempted the non-muxed file originally, using the MainConcept .mpeg2 template in Vegas Platinum. Since that ended up at 6.2gb when imported into Architect, I decided to try the muxed template, thinking that my audio and video file would somehow be magically compressed together. After this export, it seemed like this was true, but then I imported the muxed version into Architect and it seemed to have split the files back apart, once again creating 6.2gb.

Since I have the Vegas Platinum edition and not the full blown Vegas 6, it appears I do not have the option to export my audio as .ac3. I'm looking into .wav to .ac3 converters to help me reduce the audio file size, but I don't know how many are available. Thanks for your suggestion, as I think it is leading me in the right direction.

Chris Barcellos · June 20th, 2006, 09:27 PM

Chad:

If you can get a hold of Pinnacle 10 (about $79), the DVD production part of the program works great, and you have a lot of play with the bitrate to fit everything on a single DVD.

Christopher Lefchik · June 20th, 2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Martin

Since I have the Vegas Platinum edition and not the full blown Vegas 6, it appears I do not have the option to export my audio as .ac3. I'm looking into .wav to .ac3 converters to help me reduce the audio file size, but I don't know how many are available. Thanks for your suggestion, as I think it is leading me in the right direction.

You definitely want Dolby Digital audio compression, as even with Dolby Digital audio it could be difficult to get good looking video when attempting to fit two hours on a single layer 4.7 GB DVD. It would be well nigh impossible with uncompressed PCM audio (and I wouldn't recommend the mp2 audio option).

As for the video compression side of things you will need to use two pass variable bit rate compression to have any hope of decent looking video when fitting two hours on a single layer DVD. I’m not sure of the exact bit rate settings needed, as with VBR it is pretty hard to predict what the final file size will be.

Emre Safak · June 21st, 2006, 07:43 AM

Assuming your sound track is 192kbps AC3 (Dolby Digital), do two pass VBR with an average bit rate of 5Mbps.

http://www.customflix.com/Special/Au.../BitBudget.jsp

Edward Troxel · June 21st, 2006, 08:30 AM

Chad, since you're on the "Movie Studio" version of Vegas, you do not have the option in Vegas for changing the bitrate of the MPEG2 file. Therefore, you'll be better off rendering the entire project to DV-AVI, importing that DV-AVI file in the DVDAMS, and letting it do the conversion to MPEG2. You are correct that the Movie Studio version does not include AC3 audio so it will have to compress your video at a lower bitrate to compensate.

With the full version of Vegas, you can easily set the bitrate within Vegas and render to AC3 and give DVD Architect those two files.

Chad Martin · June 21st, 2006, 09:08 PM

Thanks for all of the replies. The bit calculator is interesting and should come in handy.

I also have Ulead DVD Movie Factory 4. It is pretty limited in features, but when I import my muxed .mpg file (from Vegas Studio), it kept the file size down the way I needed it. I was still over the dvd file size max by a half gig, so I created DVD folders and used the Ulead DVD shrink software to fit it to disc (I'm assuming it did this by re-rendering the video with a lower bitrate)?
There was also an option for Dolby Digital within the Ulead DVD Movie Factory software, so I selected it (it may have been defaulted, I don't recall). So would this mean that the audio is compressed (into ac-3) by the Ulead software before writing the files to dvd?

The final dvd video looks okay, but I can't get the dvd player to fforward or rewind, which is rather odd.

I may end up trying to cut the video down some so I can use DVD Architect to create the DVD. I think I'll try two pass VBR / 5mbps bit rate suggestion first. Thanks again for all of the help!

Jarrod Whaley · June 21st, 2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Martin

I may end up trying to cut the video down some so I can use DVD Architect to create the DVD.

You shouldn't have to cut it down.

My understanding, based on what you said earlier, is that DVDA gave you the error message about the low bitrate when you tried to re-encode an MPEG-2 file (which isn't really a good idea).

Try what Edward suggested: In Vegas, render your project to an .avi. Import that file into DVDA, and encode to MPEG from there. I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work.

This is the workflow I end up using about 99% of the time, and I'm certain that I've authored some DVD's that were longer than 2 hours.

Bern Duffy · July 3rd, 2006, 10:04 PM

I am also trying to burn a big (99 min) avi file using DVDArchitect Platinum. I first encoded with the stand alone Main Concept Enc set to 6000 bits Variable, PCM audio, sent the resulting avi to DVDA and got a not bad looking video quality. I'd say it's about 10% lower quality. I notice it, but my customers won't. Actually, that setting only used 4.0 of the 4.7 G available, so I'm going to set MC to 6500 and see what happens. BTW: this was One Pass.
Here's my question: Anyway I can use a downloaded AC3 filter with either DVDA or Nero? I'd still like to improve the vid quality. Sound not critical for this project.
If I could contribute anything to this discussion, I would say I think that the MC encoder is the key for me.
Cheers,
Bernie Duffy
Portland Oregon

Tom Bolia · July 3rd, 2006, 10:27 PM

IF you have a Dual Layer burner, then I would burn your master onto one of those. They should hold 2 hrs without any problems. Then, I would use DVD Shrink to copy the master onto a standard 4.7GB DVD. This works wonders for me when I have large projects.

June 20th, 2006, 06:33 PM	#1
Chad Martin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 15	Almost 2 hours of video on DVD Hoping this is the best forum for my question...I'm attempting to get an 1hr41m of video edited in Sony Vegas Platinum on to a DVD, but I'm running into file size issues. I've exported from Vegas using the DVD NTSC .mpeg2 template and the file size for the video/audio stream ends up at 4.7gb (which seems good to me). But when I import the mpeg file into DVD Architect 3.0, DVD architect seems to separate the audio from the video. When it does this, it adds the audio portion of the file size back into the 4.7gb, and ends up with 6.2gb. Re-compressing in Architect does not seem to be an option because Architect throws an error that the bitrate would be too low. So, I'm looking for some advice on how to approach getting my 1hr41m footage onto 1 DVD, and I'd be interested to hear any explanations on why DVD Architect is splitting the audio from the video and adding the file sizes together. All advice is much appreciated!

June 20th, 2006, 09:27 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Chad: If you can get a hold of Pinnacle 10 (about $79), the DVD production part of the program works great, and you have a lot of play with the bitrate to fit everything on a single DVD. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

June 21st, 2006, 08:30 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Chad, since you're on the "Movie Studio" version of Vegas, you do not have the option in Vegas for changing the bitrate of the MPEG2 file. Therefore, you'll be better off rendering the entire project to DV-AVI, importing that DV-AVI file in the DVDAMS, and letting it do the conversion to MPEG2. You are correct that the Movie Studio version does not include AC3 audio so it will have to compress your video at a lower bitrate to compensate. With the full version of Vegas, you can easily set the bitrate within Vegas and render to AC3 and give DVD Architect those two files. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 20th, 2006, 07:22 PM	#2
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Normally one exports separate video and audio streams for authoring a DVD. However, it sounds like you exported a muxed (video and audio combined) MPEG-2 file. While I'm not familiar with Vegas, there should be a template that will let you export unmuxed (video and audio separate) files. I'm not sure where the Dolby Digital plugin that comes with the Vegas+DVD suite comes into play. If you have the option to use Dolby Digital (AC3) compression when exporting the audio from Vegas, use it. Otherwise choose uncompressed PCM .wav audio so that DVD Architect can then apply the Dolby Digital compression.

June 20th, 2006, 08:25 PM	#3
Chad Martin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 15	Hi Chris. Thanks for the reply. I had actually attempted the non-muxed file originally, using the MainConcept .mpeg2 template in Vegas Platinum. Since that ended up at 6.2gb when imported into Architect, I decided to try the muxed template, thinking that my audio and video file would somehow be magically compressed together. After this export, it seemed like this was true, but then I imported the muxed version into Architect and it seemed to have split the files back apart, once again creating 6.2gb. Since I have the Vegas Platinum edition and not the full blown Vegas 6, it appears I do not have the option to export my audio as .ac3. I'm looking into .wav to .ac3 converters to help me reduce the audio file size, but I don't know how many are available. Thanks for your suggestion, as I think it is leading me in the right direction.

June 21st, 2006, 07:43 AM	#6
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	Assuming your sound track is 192kbps AC3 (Dolby Digital), do two pass VBR with an average bit rate of 5Mbps. http://www.customflix.com/Special/Au.../BitBudget.jsp

June 21st, 2006, 09:08 PM	#8
Chad Martin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 15	Thanks for all of the replies. The bit calculator is interesting and should come in handy. I also have Ulead DVD Movie Factory 4. It is pretty limited in features, but when I import my muxed .mpg file (from Vegas Studio), it kept the file size down the way I needed it. I was still over the dvd file size max by a half gig, so I created DVD folders and used the Ulead DVD shrink software to fit it to disc (I'm assuming it did this by re-rendering the video with a lower bitrate)? There was also an option for Dolby Digital within the Ulead DVD Movie Factory software, so I selected it (it may have been defaulted, I don't recall). So would this mean that the audio is compressed (into ac-3) by the Ulead software before writing the files to dvd? The final dvd video looks okay, but I can't get the dvd player to fforward or rewind, which is rather odd. I may end up trying to cut the video down some so I can use DVD Architect to create the DVD. I think I'll try two pass VBR / 5mbps bit rate suggestion first. Thanks again for all of the help!

July 3rd, 2006, 10:04 PM	#10
Bern Duffy Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portland OR Posts: 1	I am also trying to burn a big (99 min) avi file using DVDArchitect Platinum. I first encoded with the stand alone Main Concept Enc set to 6000 bits Variable, PCM audio, sent the resulting avi to DVDA and got a not bad looking video quality. I'd say it's about 10% lower quality. I notice it, but my customers won't. Actually, that setting only used 4.0 of the 4.7 G available, so I'm going to set MC to 6500 and see what happens. BTW: this was One Pass. Here's my question: Anyway I can use a downloaded AC3 filter with either DVDA or Nero? I'd still like to improve the vid quality. Sound not critical for this project. If I could contribute anything to this discussion, I would say I think that the MC encoder is the key for me. Cheers, Bernie Duffy Portland Oregon

July 3rd, 2006, 10:27 PM	#11
Tom Bolia Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Posts: 86	IF you have a Dual Layer burner, then I would burn your master onto one of those. They should hold 2 hrs without any problems. Then, I would use DVD Shrink to copy the master onto a standard 4.7GB DVD. This works wonders for me when I have large projects.