PAL HDV to NTSC DVD test

[Paul Wags]

Hello there

I was wondering if anyone from the land of NTSC would be interested in downloading a 28 meg zip file? Open it up and place all the compiled vobs etc into a VIDEO_TS folder, make a AUDIO_TS folder and burn them to a NTSC DVD.

The files are of two demo clips that I have encoded from a HDV PAL timeline straight to a NTSC MPEG 2 DVD file. One is encoded as upper fields and the other is progressive.

Once you burn the disk, a NTSC 16.9 menu should appear with links to the two files.

Would give me an if the NTSC files are correct to play in a true NTSC DVD player and TV.

Here is the link:

www.ningalooreefteach.com/Ntsctest.zip

Regards
Paul

[Pete Bauer]

Hi Paul,
Hey, I'll make a deal with you: I'll make the time to give it a go today if you'll fill in the "additional information" area of your profile, such as your location and gear. Always nice to know more about our friends here on DVinfo. BTW, I like your web site!

[Paul Wags]

You have a deal Pete. Will be good to know I can make NTSC DVD,s that work over there. I have made them with my hardware converter before from normal DV but it only has composite plugs, so trying the software road.

I will fill out my profile.

Regards
Paul

[Pete Bauer]

I viewed both clips on an LCD computer display and a rear projection HDTV. The DVD played through without any glitches. Both clips showed some motion blurring / ghosting for 2-3 frames out of every six or seven -- I'm guessing from interpolation due to the frame rate change? It was fairly easily seen during frame-by-frame viewing but wasn't too noticeable in real time.

Scan lines were more visible in the Upper Field First clip and the text juddered a little, presumably due to the field setup, whereas the Progressive clip looked rock solid except for the ghosting mentioned previously. Both were definitely enjoyable to watch, but my eye declares the Progressive clip as the winner.

I'm curious if the clip was shot in 50i and then processed as both interlaced and de-interlaced?

Beautiful footage. So when can I come for a long visit to your paradise? ;-)

[Paul Wags]

Hello Pete
Thanks alot for doing that. It's a great way to test NTSC, love the internet sometimes.

Yes I think I will stay with progressive as it does make a difference. I have made some more clips even better, and now my progressive NTSC is like my PAL interlaced when playing them side by side on twin LCD screens. PAL progressive is best though.

It was a hard test as the fish were moving so I suppose thats why you picked up the motion blurring and yes maybe caused from the conversion. However I have notice it also on certain PAL shots as well, it must be a weakness in HDV. One shot I was in tight with my HID lights on and when the critter moved you could really see it blur abit! I think underwater is a real test for camera's and encoders. There is also no way I can zoom when editing in HDV without seeing the quality drop, even just 3% I can pick it out.

As you know the raw footage is from a PAL FX1 (50i) and it has been encoded straight form the HDV timeline with procoder. I have now downloaded Magic Bullet and see how that goes.

If you like, I could send you two longer encoded MPEG2 (DVD) clips to view, one being NTSC progressive and the other PAL progressive to try. Both are better quality than what you have. For your time I will send you a copy of our new underwater DVD when we are done.

April & May are the best times to come over here. Have a Swim with the big floppy Whale Sharks.

Regards
Paul

[Emanuel Costa]

Hi Paul and Pete!

I followed your PAL -> NTSC only on paper but regarding this conversion test on the field, I'd like to know what's your opinion about the best HVX200 purchase solution:

[@1080]
24p/60i and conversion to 25p/50i
or
25p/50i and conversion to 24p/60i

In my case, my needs are two (fifty/fifty):
(A) Big screen
&
(B) DVD release [more SD PAL than NTSC (but also) & future formats HD-DVD or Blue-ray and so on for PAL & NTSC - why not?]

I'm thinking about a 24p/60i* shooting in PAL regions that will be more:
a) film-out suitable
b) NTSC suitable
c) besides 2.5x - versus 2x - slow(er) motion (150%)

*a 24p/60i purchase only will be possible if also PAL conversion goes OK.

As I could know until now, there aren't any resolution losses or other after-effects between 25p <-> 24p, so?

Thanks in advance!

[Pete Bauer]

Hi Emanuel,

Since your specific question is a bit off-topic for this particular thread and you already started a thread with basically the same question, let's have any responses to your question posted there.

I don't have an answer for you, but I'll post a brief response over in that thread that'll explain why.

Paul,

I'm fairly busy this week, but by the weekend I'd be happy to take a look at another clip or two.

[Emanuel Costa]

Thanks for the answer and sorry this post re-not so much!-placement:

Besides the Cineform issue (on the fringe of HVX sub-forum) concerning that specific point - very useful! (with David Newman help) - I thought that the question fits here but no problem. I only ask you, and Paul too, about your PAL -> NTSC experience(s). It's OK I will be waiting here or there.

And thanks again in advance!

[Paul Wags]

Hello Pete.

That would be great if you could check a couple more clips for me.

I have improved the quality of NTSC and what I will do is load up two progressive Mpeg 2 CBR 8mbps DVD spec identical clips. One will be PAL and the other NTSC. You can play them side by side on the computer or burn them to a DVD and try.

I will leave out the sound to save file size.

I think the quality I have straight from a PAL HDV timeline is alright.

The more I look the more I find that HDV has motion blur on some shots. It's certainly not bad and I feel that now I am aware of it I can shoot around it. I thought is was really bad at first but I think my twin LCD '8mbps' don't refresh quick enough when playing the raw 1080/1440 clips. DVD's are fine.

Maybe Emanuel would like to download the clips as well.

I will post the links when they are up.

Paul

[Emanuel Costa]

Originally Posted by Paul Wags

(...)Maybe Emanuel would like to download the clips as well.

I will post the links when they are up.

Paul

Thanks concerning to me! By now, I only have a dial-up modem available but if you will have it online during next weeks, I will as soon as possible, of course.

And regarding my concern, do you have any consistent opinion about that?

<PS> One of my problems is/will be the sound: 4% speed-up or 4% slowdown will not be the same...doubt impossible to solve yet from Cineform thread.

[Paul Wags]

Emanuel, I have not made a true NTSC AVI file yet as I have found with PAL AVI's that I have made, then encoding to a DVD does not give as good a quality as what I can get encoding straight from the timeline.

Pete if you are there..... If you like I have loaded up identical PAL and NTSC progressive mpeg 2 DVD clips.
14 megs each in size.

Source is straight from a PAL HDV timeline.

www.ningalooreefteach.com/PALpro.m2v
www.ningalooreefteach.com/NTSCpro.m2v

Download them and have a look at the quality, they are better quality than the first lot you tried for me.

Im about to give Magic Bullet a go to see if I can improve the look and compare the time it takes.

Paul

[Emanuel Costa]

Thanks Paul! As I said, I will download them (PAL & NTSC both), as soon as possible. As you probably figured out, I'm very interesting in this exchange of experiences, files, etc. - if you are interested, of course - specially, after my HD cam purchase.

Emanuel