DVD scan lines/interlaced issue at DVinfo.net

Kieran Vyas · May 16th, 2015, 03:03 PM

I am trying to burn a DVD but I'm having an issue with it being interlaced. I am getting scan lines on the subject in my scenes during motion, when played back on my TV. The same as if I was watching interlaced footage on a computer. Any ideas why this might be? I exported from Premiere Pro losslessly, then used avisynth to bring it into HCencoder. My initial footage was mainly progressive, but quite a lot of it is 50p so I chose to interlace the mpeg2-DVD file to retain smooth motion.

I exported my project from Premiere Pro CC using the Lagarith codec - 1080p50 progressive

My final script:
AviSource("finished.avi")
ConvertToYV12()
Spline36Resize(720,576)
Blur(0,0.5)
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601",clamp=0
AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4, 0, 3).Weave()

HCencoder settings:
Avg bitrate - 4000
Max bitrate - 8000
Profile - Best
Matrix - Manono3
Interlacing options - Auto detect; TFF

Enrique Orozco Robles · May 21st, 2015, 01:07 PM

Why are you taking an interlaced route ?..... I shoot progressive (1080p)... and make my DVD-mpeg2 renders also in progressive (Sony Vegas)... DVD architect handles the resulting files without a problem.... and I'm very happy with the final DVD quality ....

my 2 cents... good luck

Chris Harding · May 22nd, 2015, 04:59 AM

I still send out interlaced DVD's BUT all footage on my timeline is progressive ..if you mix it then de-interlace it ALL before any rendering. The lines are caused when you render from 1080 down to 720 in the resizing process ... Surely you can just render from Premiere straight to a MPEG2 DVD file ..Can't see the point of exporting from the editor and then rendering again???

DVD's will, as said work just as well in players going to flat screen TV's as progressive as TV's are progressive anyway ...only CRT TV's are interlaced if they still exist???

Ron Evans · May 22nd, 2015, 11:12 AM

You probably got the field order wrong. The frame sync tells the player when the field sequence starts so the order needs to be correct. I should mention for all formats other than DV the field order is upper ( odd ) fields first.

Ron Evans

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2015, 12:54 AM

Hi Ron

One must assume that the OP is using HD footage so that is upper field first ..However if you use Sony Vegas to render to an MPEG2 DVD file it reports that the preset is lower field first ... assuming that the DVD is unlikely to be played on a CRT TV it would be safe to de-interlace timeline footage (if it's not all progressive) and render to a progressive MPEG2 surely ... If it's being watched on any LCD TV wouldn't the DVD player send it to the TV as progressive anyway??

Chris

Ron Evans · May 23rd, 2015, 07:03 AM

It is my understanding that only DV tape is lower field first.

I assume DVD is upper field first. I make all my DVD's interlaced and let TMPGenc sort out the correct specs for DVD which indicates upper field first. I use Edius to edit with mixed progressive and interlaced files from my NX5U ( interlaced ), NX30U progressive 60P as well as FDR-AX1 and FDR-AX100 in an interlaced project. I think DVD players can get confused by wrong field order sometimes. DVD players will send what ever is set in their menus either interlaced or progressive. When set to progressive de interlace quality will be that of the DVD player. When interlaced is sent to the TV then it will be the TV that will de interlace. Depends on which is the best. I expect that if the customer has a nice Sony 240hz interpolating display the TV will do a better job than a low cost DVD player. Not sure what happens if the connection is HDMI as they will " talk " to each other and may take the decision out of your control !!!

I like smooth motion so for DVD the only option is 60i.

Ron Evans

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2015, 07:54 AM

Thanks Ron

Yeah I shoot interlaced still and let Sony Vegas de-interlace on the timeline then render to the DVD PAL preset (I had to mod the standard one cos it was 4:3) Never had a complaint from brides at all. I wonder if a progressive DVD would have a better image ..personal I don't think a bride would notice.

If you have Vegas then check the DVD PAL preset on your version .. mine definitely sets lower field first .. it might be a PAL thing??? but my DVD NTSC preset that I choose when rendering an MPEG2 files also sets the field to lower by default??? I have never changed it and it never given any hassles. Do you think if we change the field to progressive the IQ would be better on a DVD ..I have never compared it but a progressive DVD certainly runs fine on my player.

Chris

Ron Evans · May 23rd, 2015, 09:53 AM

Just checked Chris and my Vegas also says lower field for PAL upper for NTSC. I think that is incorrect as I think both PAL and NTSC DVD are upper field and that is what Edius and TMPGenc set in their encodes. Will check what ADOBE media encoder sets when I power up my editing machine.

I only make interlaced DVD's as my frame rate is 60I and I think frame rate would have to be 24 for progressive in NTSC. Not tried so can't really confirm.

Ron Evans

Ron Evans · May 23rd, 2015, 10:07 AM

Just checked ADOBE Media encoder and that give options but default is lower !! Also gives options for progressive as well as interlaced but of course the progressive is 25fps for PAL and 29.97 for NTSC so the smooth motion of interlace is lost or the progressive rates would have to be 50fps for PAL and 59.94fps for NTSC for the same temporal motion.

Ron Evans

Chris Harding · May 23rd, 2015, 09:45 PM

Thanks Ron

I have always left my field as default .. Funny, in Vegas 10E the NTSC also defaults to Lower !!

If you shoot in 60i and deinterlace on the timeline IF you render the DVD MPEG2 file as progressive do you get motion issues? I tried a progressive DVD a while back and didn't see any problems ..that was shot at 50i and the MPEG2 files were progressive ...then again, in weddings you seldom get any wild motion anyway. I work on the theory that if it works leave it and every DVD I create never gives me any issues so I figure regardless of the TV and DVD player it does the job correctly and I never have changed it despite people screaming at me on the forum asking "You still shoot at 50i" ???

I have seen scary motion issues that a bride showed me from a competitor's DVD with terrible motion blur and I have also had pixellation and posterisation issues shooting progressive so even if we are labelled as old fashioned we still must be doing something right??

Chris

Ron Evans · May 24th, 2015, 03:54 PM

Whatever has worked for you Chris. My workflow is almost always 4 cameras for a show. Edit all in a 1920x1080 interlaced project in Edius. Export a 1920x1080 60i HQX file with PCM audio and then let TMPGenc scale and encode to 720x480 16x9 MPEG2 file for DVD then author in DVDArchitect. The resize uses Lanczos 3, closed GOP, 2 Pass VBR ( since they are always around 2 hours ) Dolby AC3 256kbps and Elementary Streams for DVDArchitect. When I have used Vegas to edit something, ( single track family stuff ) I have used the same approach since HQX codec is on the system it is available for all software including Vegas and Premiere CS6 etc.

Ron Evans

Chris Harding · May 24th, 2015, 06:29 PM

Is there any special reason why you go thru an extra process Ron ... Surely Edius can simply export the timeline straight out to an MPEG2 DVD compliant file ? What is the advantage of double dipping and running your exported file thru TMPGenc as well?

Ron Evans · May 24th, 2015, 06:43 PM

Edius does have Lanczos3 scaling choice but will only do single pass encode so for the long times I have I need 2 pass VBR for the best quality. I also find TMPGenc to be the better encoding of all I have tried.

Ron Evans

Kieran Vyas · June 6th, 2015, 04:16 PM

Than you for your replies! I am using the script AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4, 0, 3).Weave() which is upper field? So that shouldn't be a problem should it? Am I right to be exporting as progressive from Premiere Pro and interlacing with avisynth, or should I export interlaced? Thanks for your help guys I've had a nightmare getting this DVD to work and I'm almost there now, just these few interlace problems left to solve!

Chris Harding · June 7th, 2015, 12:42 AM

Why don't you simply export to a MPEG2 from Premiere 720x480 ready for DVD? Sony Vegas reports that their DVD PAL and DVD NTSC are interlaced as Lower Field first NOT Upper and I have done thousands of wedding DVD's using that preset without any errors or playback issues!!

Just make sure that IF you have any timeline footage in Premiere that is interlaced you MUST set Premiere so it gets deinterlaced before rendering to an MPEG 2 otherwise interlacing lines will be not only retained but also be exaggerated during the downsize process.

May 16th, 2015, 03:03 PM	#1
Kieran Vyas New Boot Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: London Posts: 6	DVD scan lines/interlaced issue I am trying to burn a DVD but I'm having an issue with it being interlaced. I am getting scan lines on the subject in my scenes during motion, when played back on my TV. The same as if I was watching interlaced footage on a computer. Any ideas why this might be? I exported from Premiere Pro losslessly, then used avisynth to bring it into HCencoder. My initial footage was mainly progressive, but quite a lot of it is 50p so I chose to interlace the mpeg2-DVD file to retain smooth motion. I exported my project from Premiere Pro CC using the Lagarith codec - 1080p50 progressive My final script: AviSource("finished.avi") ConvertToYV12() Spline36Resize(720,576) Blur(0,0.5) ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601",clamp=0 AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4, 0, 3).Weave() HCencoder settings: Avg bitrate - 4000 Max bitrate - 8000 Profile - Best Matrix - Manono3 Interlacing options - Auto detect; TFF

May 21st, 2015, 01:07 PM	#2
Enrique Orozco Robles Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Chihuahua MEXICO Posts: 146	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Why are you taking an interlaced route ?..... I shoot progressive (1080p)... and make my DVD-mpeg2 renders also in progressive (Sony Vegas)... DVD architect handles the resulting files without a problem.... and I'm very happy with the final DVD quality .... my 2 cents... good luck __________________ Enrique Orozco - Sony/JVC/Nikon/Panny cams, DJI/Yuneec drones, VegasPro www.aerofilm.com.mx

May 22nd, 2015, 04:59 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue I still send out interlaced DVD's BUT all footage on my timeline is progressive ..if you mix it then de-interlace it ALL before any rendering. The lines are caused when you render from 1080 down to 720 in the resizing process ... Surely you can just render from Premiere straight to a MPEG2 DVD file ..Can't see the point of exporting from the editor and then rendering again??? DVD's will, as said work just as well in players going to flat screen TV's as progressive as TV's are progressive anyway ...only CRT TV's are interlaced if they still exist???

May 22nd, 2015, 11:12 AM	#4
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue You probably got the field order wrong. The frame sync tells the player when the field sequence starts so the order needs to be correct. I should mention for all formats other than DV the field order is upper ( odd ) fields first. Ron Evans

May 23rd, 2015, 12:54 AM	#5
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Hi Ron One must assume that the OP is using HD footage so that is upper field first ..However if you use Sony Vegas to render to an MPEG2 DVD file it reports that the preset is lower field first ... assuming that the DVD is unlikely to be played on a CRT TV it would be safe to de-interlace timeline footage (if it's not all progressive) and render to a progressive MPEG2 surely ... If it's being watched on any LCD TV wouldn't the DVD player send it to the TV as progressive anyway?? Chris

May 23rd, 2015, 07:03 AM	#6
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue It is my understanding that only DV tape is lower field first. I assume DVD is upper field first. I make all my DVD's interlaced and let TMPGenc sort out the correct specs for DVD which indicates upper field first. I use Edius to edit with mixed progressive and interlaced files from my NX5U ( interlaced ), NX30U progressive 60P as well as FDR-AX1 and FDR-AX100 in an interlaced project. I think DVD players can get confused by wrong field order sometimes. DVD players will send what ever is set in their menus either interlaced or progressive. When set to progressive de interlace quality will be that of the DVD player. When interlaced is sent to the TV then it will be the TV that will de interlace. Depends on which is the best. I expect that if the customer has a nice Sony 240hz interpolating display the TV will do a better job than a low cost DVD player. Not sure what happens if the connection is HDMI as they will " talk " to each other and may take the decision out of your control !!! I like smooth motion so for DVD the only option is 60i. Ron Evans

May 23rd, 2015, 07:54 AM	#7
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Thanks Ron Yeah I shoot interlaced still and let Sony Vegas de-interlace on the timeline then render to the DVD PAL preset (I had to mod the standard one cos it was 4:3) Never had a complaint from brides at all. I wonder if a progressive DVD would have a better image ..personal I don't think a bride would notice. If you have Vegas then check the DVD PAL preset on your version .. mine definitely sets lower field first .. it might be a PAL thing??? but my DVD NTSC preset that I choose when rendering an MPEG2 files also sets the field to lower by default??? I have never changed it and it never given any hassles. Do you think if we change the field to progressive the IQ would be better on a DVD ..I have never compared it but a progressive DVD certainly runs fine on my player. Chris

May 23rd, 2015, 09:53 AM	#8
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Just checked Chris and my Vegas also says lower field for PAL upper for NTSC. I think that is incorrect as I think both PAL and NTSC DVD are upper field and that is what Edius and TMPGenc set in their encodes. Will check what ADOBE media encoder sets when I power up my editing machine. I only make interlaced DVD's as my frame rate is 60I and I think frame rate would have to be 24 for progressive in NTSC. Not tried so can't really confirm. Ron Evans

May 23rd, 2015, 10:07 AM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Just checked ADOBE Media encoder and that give options but default is lower !! Also gives options for progressive as well as interlaced but of course the progressive is 25fps for PAL and 29.97 for NTSC so the smooth motion of interlace is lost or the progressive rates would have to be 50fps for PAL and 59.94fps for NTSC for the same temporal motion. Ron Evans

May 23rd, 2015, 09:45 PM	#10
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Thanks Ron I have always left my field as default .. Funny, in Vegas 10E the NTSC also defaults to Lower !! If you shoot in 60i and deinterlace on the timeline IF you render the DVD MPEG2 file as progressive do you get motion issues? I tried a progressive DVD a while back and didn't see any problems ..that was shot at 50i and the MPEG2 files were progressive ...then again, in weddings you seldom get any wild motion anyway. I work on the theory that if it works leave it and every DVD I create never gives me any issues so I figure regardless of the TV and DVD player it does the job correctly and I never have changed it despite people screaming at me on the forum asking "You still shoot at 50i" ??? I have seen scary motion issues that a bride showed me from a competitor's DVD with terrible motion blur and I have also had pixellation and posterisation issues shooting progressive so even if we are labelled as old fashioned we still must be doing something right?? Chris

May 24th, 2015, 03:54 PM	#11
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Whatever has worked for you Chris. My workflow is almost always 4 cameras for a show. Edit all in a 1920x1080 interlaced project in Edius. Export a 1920x1080 60i HQX file with PCM audio and then let TMPGenc scale and encode to 720x480 16x9 MPEG2 file for DVD then author in DVDArchitect. The resize uses Lanczos 3, closed GOP, 2 Pass VBR ( since they are always around 2 hours ) Dolby AC3 256kbps and Elementary Streams for DVDArchitect. When I have used Vegas to edit something, ( single track family stuff ) I have used the same approach since HQX codec is on the system it is available for all software including Vegas and Premiere CS6 etc. Ron Evans

May 24th, 2015, 06:29 PM	#12
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Is there any special reason why you go thru an extra process Ron ... Surely Edius can simply export the timeline straight out to an MPEG2 DVD compliant file ? What is the advantage of double dipping and running your exported file thru TMPGenc as well?

May 24th, 2015, 06:43 PM	#13
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Edius does have Lanczos3 scaling choice but will only do single pass encode so for the long times I have I need 2 pass VBR for the best quality. I also find TMPGenc to be the better encoding of all I have tried. Ron Evans

June 6th, 2015, 04:16 PM	#14
Kieran Vyas New Boot Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: London Posts: 6	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Than you for your replies! I am using the script AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4, 0, 3).Weave() which is upper field? So that shouldn't be a problem should it? Am I right to be exporting as progressive from Premiere Pro and interlacing with avisynth, or should I export interlaced? Thanks for your help guys I've had a nightmare getting this DVD to work and I'm almost there now, just these few interlace problems left to solve!

June 7th, 2015, 12:42 AM	#15
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DVD scan lines/interlaced issue Why don't you simply export to a MPEG2 from Premiere 720x480 ready for DVD? Sony Vegas reports that their DVD PAL and DVD NTSC are interlaced as Lower Field first NOT Upper and I have done thousands of wedding DVD's using that preset without any errors or playback issues!! Just make sure that IF you have any timeline footage in Premiere that is interlaced you MUST set Premiere so it gets deinterlaced before rendering to an MPEG 2 otherwise interlacing lines will be not only retained but also be exaggerated during the downsize process.